Want to try a great online web game...

[Irre]

Talking about another game is fine. Advertising another game isn't. This is spam.

-Bolty

[Baajikiil]

Wow, didn't know I could rely on the Lounge for game advertisements as well as D2 info.

[kandrathe]

Ya, a definite SPAM, and P2P as well.

[Erthshade]

Pay2Play?

*BURN HIM.*

[Quark]

Good game involving Valhalla?

http://www.the-underdogs.org

Look up Hammer of the Gods (and pray you don't have Win2k/XP, sigh ...)

As for this ... ugh, I hate ads. Especially nice that the poster just registered today.

[Obi2Kenobi]

I used to play it... but it became pay to play... so I don't any more.

[yangman]

Goinng Pay-to-Play always seem to stir up less-than-enthusiastic responses from players of multi-player online games that were free.
The sad fact is, most of development and administrating teams need the money to even keep the game running.

[Mael-Storm]

Anyone ever heard of Infintry?
It used to be like the best game.
Now what is it?
A god damned pay to play game! :angry:

[Rhydderch Hael]

I've just started into a session of Diplomacy on another forum. I lucked out and ended up playing as England. We just submitted our moves for Spring 1901. Am just about to see how the lay of the land falls.

[Rhydderch Hael]

http://home.earthlink.net/~rhydderch/_uima...s/1901April.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhydderch/_uima...1901October.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhydderch/_uima...s/1902April.jpg
Next turn, (Fall, 1902) will be finalized this weekend. Major changes in the winds will turn, methinks.

[Skandranon]

Sweden?

England in Sweden by Spring 02?

I'm going to guess it's Russia you conned into giving the support.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Actually, I conned Russia into running interference against that German fleet that was built in Berlin. Had him bottle up that fleet from entering the Baltic while I made a two-pronged probing attack (A Nor-Swe, F Nth-Skag), testing the intentions of the German in Denmark. That crafty lil' Teuton tried to send the Denmark fleet into the Skag and bring up the Kiel army to reinforce a claim on Sweden via a three pronged (Baltic-Den-Skag) offensive.

But late word is that Russia is falling into civic disarray. A newbie player at Dip originally had the reins of power, but he's bowing out for time and scheduling problems. So, it's a quick snag of St. Pete's for me (using the oh-so-derided cul-de-sac of a Fleet on the north coast <_< ), an overture to Austria to open his war on Germany with a stab at Munich (by decoying the Silesian army to make a play on Warsaw), and then see how the board settles for the next round.

Russia's pending civic disarray spolied my plans built on the hope of a Russian standoff of Warsaw committed through the Ukrainian army and the Muscovite defense force, against the German army in Silesia and any (hopefully false) Austrian support from Galicia. The Turk could spoil that on his own by the unanticipated attack of the Stevastopol invaders against Moscow, cutting off the Muscovite support of the Ukrainian army. But I know for a fact (given that the Turk has asked for a "field test" of an Anglo-Ottoman alliance) that he's moving to evict the Czarist army from the Ukraine (of course, a dislodge against standoff means disbanding the unit rather than retreat into his destination province)...Nuts! I have to talk to the Turk now and tell him not to engage the Russian army in the Ukraine!

Gotta keep my eye on France, though. Notice that Belgium's been unmolested this whole time? Berlin and Paris have been luvvy-duvvy for a while now, but I wonder how that will last when I revealed to France that Germany betrayed a communique between them to me (in order to goad me into dissolving the Anglo-Franco alliance I've entertained these last four rounds?)

Of course, I taunted Germany back with this...

Wireless Telegraph from H.M.S. Devastation, British Home Fleet, North Sea

To: Baron XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXXXXXX, Ambassador of the Imperial German State
Fm: Sir XXXXXX X XXXXXXXXX, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Great Britain

British consulate Berlin evacuated. Ambassador en route to Norway.

Re: Attempt on life Lord Cavendish, German complicity ascertained. French ambassador warned. Belgium concession void. What is your reccomendation to whom produces the better ale: Amsterdam or Copehagen?

Lest you thought Bruxelles a better prospect for Royal Navy, no?

[Rhydderch Hael]

I do not pretend to be an actual warrior, nor leader of men in war. But may I dare opine that I have attained just a little glimpse at the world of such men who are?

They say "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best." But I wonder if they understand the breadth of such logic...

...What is more distressing: thinking up just how hard the enemy can hurt you, or wondering what trick they have up their sleeve when everything is falling your way?

The latest Diplomacy moves have been published. For the above reason, I'm more upset at the outcome than I should really be:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhydderch/_uima...1902October.jpg

I made all my plans on the contingency that the enemies would do their best to unseat me. The easiest way the German could have destroyed all my hope was to go F Den --> Skag (actually, I think he tried, but his order was unclear); A Kiel --> Den; and F Ber --> Bal. In this fashion, he would have taken Sweden without contest and even made a threat to St. Pete's or Norway as well. I thought I was sunk in this fashion.

But what do I get? Two nations in civic disarray (Russian player dropped out of game, Austrian failed to meet the deadline for moves), the Italian failing to exploit the Iberian convoy stab, the German giving up on Sweden and dropping south to reinforce against a (non-existent) Austrian play on Munich—and the utter failure of a nation to take Warsaw! No one made any moves concerning Warsaw!!

If the German player contests his F Den --> Den (Skag) order to carry through into the Skagerrak, he's in more for a world of hurt than if he keeps quiet. Because I had A Swe --> Den, and that would thus carry, I would get 3 builds in Spring 1903, and Germany loses 1 unit!

This is a Fall turn—grabbing resources is the name of the game at this point. The Warsaw debacle is a fortune for me, since Germany gets zero builds and lays Denmark bare.

Things are going my way, and I'm scared out of my boots.

"Art of war states that, until faced with evidence to the contrary, assume your enemy to be smarter—so play stupid early on and get the other guy to underestimate you..." Am I falling for this one? :unsure:

Skan, looks like I'm getting Denmark and/or Kiel in 1903, too...Unless I have other plans... *insert evil laugh here* ;)

I have to amend the map to show Builds.

[Skandranon]

Actually, I conned Russia into running interference against that German fleet that was built in Berlin.

Either way, you got Russia jumping the way you wanted. I had Russia pegged as a weak player from seeing the summer '01 map.

Is Russia going into all-out civil? As in, all units issuing holds every turn? If so, the other players aren't complaining? Because yes, now you *can* take St. Pete's. Usually a double-edged sword, but without an active Russia trying to take it back, one edge really isn't there.

Hmmm. I can't tell how good Austria is. A textbook Balkan Gambit followed by a failure to submit doesn't say anything more than that Austria reads the books. Although, if I were you, I'd err on the side of caution and assume that Austria's at least decent, in which case any hints he may have been giving you regarding warring on Germany are just smokescreen. Austria almost never wins when Germany goes down.

I saw how Belgium was left open. Coupled with France's nonagressive opening, there was only one reason for Germany not to order into Holland and Belgium simultaneously. However, France's Winter 01 builds tell me that either France isn't a strong player or that he's got second thoughts about the whole Franco-Prussian thing. A Par, A Mar isn't exactly a strong anti-British build. Either way you can talk France down, especially now that he's in Pie. Nonagressively building A Lvp, F Edi will set it up. Then, concentrating on Den and Kie should seal it, along with a list of suggested moves to prosecute an Italian war. You just have to keep France off your back until you can put the knife all the way through Germany. Talking to Italy about how the French are eyeing him greedily is a pretty good way to do that, of course.

Italy looks like a weak player. After the ambiguous opening, he then chooses to take Tun with the fleet, and then inexplicably holds it there when TYS is an absolutely no-thought required better choice. Furthermore, if I'm reading the maps correctly, he holds F Nap with no reason to do so either. He has no vision beyond taking and holding Tun, and making sure he doesn't lose Ven. This is an easily manipulable player; I think you can play France and Italy off against each other without much trouble. Though, I agree with the decision not to play to WMED and TYS in the Fall. It's an incredibly telegraphed move on a Fall turn; F Mar and the whole thing goes to pieces. Not that I think Italy actually had all those thoughts and actively chose not to do it. Anyway, French army in Piedmont should be enough provocation for this player. Just set his vision on "kill France".

Germany's panic marks him as someone you can outtactic; he's not thinking. The Austrian is not well served at all in taking Munich - Austria can't hold it. Germany's play to Silesia to grab the vacant Warsaw is also a sign of someone who either isn't thinking very much or is thinking too much. If Austria's against him, he's lost this game, so his only option is to play as if Austria isn't going for Munich. He should have conceded Warsaw to Austria, pointed out to the Frenchman how he let him have Belgium, and concentrated against the real threat, that being you. As it is, he's sadly out of position, and his schizophrenic defence of sending one unit north and all the rest south is going to cost him. As an experienced GM I'm on the side of denying him the order, which is clearly invalid - but wouldn't it be nice if you got it?

Hmmm. Upon further thought, it looks like Germany WAS conceding Warsaw, but Austria failed to move. Without seeing the orders I can't be sure, but...did A Sil support A Kie to Mun? If so, Germany is even weaker tactically than I had thought before.

If you get three builds, I think you could do a fair job of taking France and Germany at the same time. It depends on France's build. The smart one would be F Bre. The one I'm thinking he'll make is F Mar. The problem is, it's a bit too much of a gamble. Do you have build negotiation phases? If there was some way you could shift the probability of F Mar a little higher, a sudden F Lvp, F Lon, A Edi (or even F Edi) build followed by moves to IRI and NAO and a bounce in the Channel could win you MAO, which would pretty much doom France as long as you keep Italy going.

As for Turkey, well, you just need to remind him (once you vacate StP) that no matter how tempting StP looks, board geography means that he can *never* hold it against you, and that him trying to take it and you easily defending it will tie up two of your units and two of his units, all of which are more gainfully employed elsewhere. I'd tell the Turk that Warsaw and Moscow are his, and wish him luck with Austria. Which, in turn, draws away Austrian support so your finishing touches regarding Germany and France aren't interfered with.

Anyway, well...I just typed it down as it came into my head, so...it's a lot :) Just observations and stuff. And letting you know that I, a disinterested observer, can definitely tell that they're playing poorly, so you don't have to get too nervous. If a four nation coalition suddenly emerged you could be in for a spot of trouble, but keep the sparks flying between France and Italy and you'll do fine.

[BanditAngel]

Wow, this right as I join a PBEM Diplomacy game. And judging by how little sense any of that made I expect that Turkey shall vanish from power by Spring 1901. Oh well, maybe this will give me enough of an understanding to make it all the way to Fall ;)

(EDIT ADD) Hmm, those maps are actually fairly useful, I think I've got a fair idea of the strategies that work for each nation now, although the players involved in your game seem to be making a few mistakes. Not to mention Russia and Austria disappearing, which makes Russia look especially bad.

Still, I at least know what my first turn moves should look like :)

[Skandranon]

Well, Turkey's a great power for a beginner. One of the big reasons is that Turkey has only three mainline openings, while every other power has at least five plus variations.

1) The literally named Balkan Concentration, A Con-Bul, F Ank-BLA, A Smy-Con. Usually part of a prearranged bounce with Russia.

2) The Crimean Crusher, A Con-Bul, F Ank-BLA, A Smy-Arm, which targets Russia right off the bat. Best played when Russia's been duped into playing F Sev-Rum on the first turn.

3) The Bosphorus Opening, which is a pretty sure sign of a Juggernaut in the offing. A Con-Bul, F Ank-Con, A Smy-Ank. Frees Smyrna for a fleet build and allows the Turkish fleet to get into AEG in '01.

The choice between the three is mostly determined by your disposition with Russia. Bosphorus is if you're reaching for a full out alliance (keeping in mind that Russia-Turkey alliances are usually very successful, but end with Russia winning the game over 80% of the time). Crimean is if you want to hurt Russia. Otherwise, default to the Balkan Concentration.

[Rhydderch Hael]

The Fall 1902 Moves
Russia (2 Supply Centers & 2 Units)
Civil Disorder (Player left game)
A – Ukraine Disbanded (Rule applied to dislodged units under Civil Disorder)


Austria (5 Supply Centers & 5 Units)
Civil Disorder (Failure to submit moves on deadline)


England (6 Supply Centers & 4 Units)
F London ---> Wales
F North Sea ---> Helgoland Bight
A Sweden ---> Denmark
F Norway ---> St. Petersburg (North Coast)
Build (2 Units)


Germany (5 Supply Centers & 5 Units)
F Berlin ---> Prussia
F Denmark ---> Denmark (Skaggerak) -unclear order, army simply holds-
A Kiel ---> Munich
A Silesia s A Kiel ---> Munich
A Holland holds


France (6 Supply Centers & 5 Units)
A Picardy ---> Belgium
A Marseilles ---> Piedmonte
-Rule applied for partial orders. All unmentionned units are considered to hold
Build (1 Unit)


Turkey (6 Supply Centers & 5 Units)
A Stevastopol ---> Ukraine
A Rumanina s A Stevastopol ---> Ukraine
F Black Sea holds
A Bulgaria holds
A Armenia ---> Stevastopol
Build (1 Unit)


Italy (4 Supply Centers & 4 Units)
A Venice holds
A Apulia s A Venice
F Tunis ---> Ionian Sea
F Naples s F Tunis ---> Ionian Sea

I should state that I think most of the players in this session are actually new at this. I'm not exactly a seasoned player myself, but I have played it before and have: 1) an understanding of the mechanics behind standoffs and tactical moves; and 2) a sneaky, Machiavellian streak that understands there are two kinds of Dippy players here: those who play on the board, and those who play on the players.

I've been sweet-talking France this entire time, holding to an overt mask of honesty. The French and German communicating with each other—that was obvious to me once I saw the Low Countries play in Fall 1901 carry out. Rather than make a hurried resource grab and get three Builds for his efforts, he let Belgium alone and instead moved to reinforce Denmark against a (then) weak foothold I had in Scandinavia. He could have easily reinforced Denmark by building a third unit in Kiel instead of moving there...I thought myself lucky in that instance.

I think I have maintained France's trust whilst moving F Lon-Wales, citing that I was merely clearing the docks of London for a new build against Germany.

Russia is truly out. Player left the game, and all Czarist units are on Hold. Depending on the winds, that stranded Russian fleet in GoB would either be a roadblock against a German move at St. Pete, or an obstacle in my way to rescue Pete from a German expedition.

As to the Warsaw issue of Fall 1902: the German in Silesia supported the drive into Munich, anticipating an Austrian stab at Munich (which I brokered to Austria) in order to preserve his resources. The sole purpose of the Munich stab was to cut the German's numbers for the next turn. But alas, the Austrian player failed to submit his moves by the deadline. Civic disarray. In a way, it worked best for me: had the Austrian been on the ball, there may have been a standoff (should Silesia have paid attention to Warsaw) and Kiel would remain occupied. Now, it's a game of waking Austria up and telling him to keep up pressure on Germany, thus fixing the German forces south and spreading him out a bit.

The trouble is, the German knew exactly what the Austrian plan was. The Munich stab was supposed to be a surprise, but I have determined the leak. Only three players knew of the Austrian stab: Austria, me, and Italy (submitted to Italy to ease his fears on Venice and encourage a play against France). I didn't message Berlin. The Austrian surely would not have. The Italian is the snitch and a secret ally of Germany!

Then again, knowing this, I now have a channel for disinformation. I wonder what I can get Germany to do through the Italian puppet? ;)

The Italian's lack of experience was obvious from day one. It was reinforced when he failed to take the Ionian in Spring 1902 (F Tunis-Ioninan, whilst Austrian F Greece-Ioninan. You guessed it. Italian F Naples H!) When I pointed out the mistake of his decision, I also pointed out the merits of my Anglo-Austrian alliance and forehand knowledge the Austrian would not go for Venice (hinting Italy to go after France). Not only did the Italian fail to move west, he repeated the (now defunct) moves of Spring 1902 despite knowledge that the Austrian was not going to be going for him!

Nonetheless, I think France in subtly prepping for an English attack. The only explanation for his lack of resolve on his eastern front (he's not even in on the hub of Burgundy!) is that he's spreading his units around for a universal defense. Namely, hanging one army back on Gascony to protect the Iberian peninsula from either an Italian (or an English) stab.

There's no build negotiations, but I did reveal the Italian-German alliance to France, hoping that the French build this turn is in Marseilles.

I'll admit I'm not much of an experienced player myself. My Builds for Spring 1903 have a decidedly anti-French look to them. (F Lon, F Liv) :huh: I was hoping to negate his alarm diplomatically and trust on an Austrian distraction of Germany in time for me to stab Iberia and attempt to neutralize the French sea power. The only thing that encouraged me in ignoring France for so long was that he has fielded only one Fleet this whole time. I was debating in Fall 1902 whether or not to standoff Belgium in order to prevent a French build, thus keeping him at one Fleet and trapping the majority of his forces on the Continent whilst I built my western defenses and an invasion of Spain, Portugal, and Brest.

I'm encouraged, Skan. But only on the grace that I am only the guy who least looks like a rookie (but still far from being a master). Of course, I have been making my time sowing discontent among the players, if not the actual board.

---I opened the game with an indigant and heated refusal of a German resolution to the Russian-German-English standoff of Scandinavia (where I would exchange my hold on Norway for German support of a French invasion). It took some time, but the German wrote back by saying he never sent such a plan. This laid down the idea that another player (presumably Russia) sent a Back Mail letter in Germany's name to me in an attempt to further their own agendas.
The trick? I knew that Germany never sent such a letter. There never was such a letter in the first place! Result? No German-Russian negotiation, and the Russian was more open to my proposals when I tabled them.

---The task I had to accomplish was get the Russian army in St. Pete's to give up reinforcing a claim on Sweden. This meant enticing the Russian to see that it would best left be that he moved his armies south to deal with Turkey rather than press for Sweden. I sent an anonymous letter to Russia, stating the chance for a Turkish-Austrian standoff of Rumania (thus preserving the Fleet there). The Russian latched onto that hopeless hope with all his might, and played it through. Encouraged by this path to salvation, he was more open to the idea of moving A StP-Mos to reinforce his lines against the Turk. And fully believeing that he had a chance of surviving the south, I had him happily agreeing to an open alliance with England to solve the Swedish problem with that British probing attack in Spring 1902. But to help drive a nail into the Russian coffin, I sent one late letter to the Turk, warning him about the standoff threat. I don't know if my words were taken to heart, or if the Austrian and Turk had already planned their alliance out long beforehand, but the rest is history...

[Rhydderch Hael]

BanditAngel, the nations of Turkey and England are known as The Wicked Witches of the East and West, respectively. They are called that becuase they command easily defensible positions on the board (taking up the corners, limiting approaches). You have a chance at surviving. I really lucked out in drawing the Wicked Witch of the West in this game session. Not only for is defenses, but because I've downloaded a Street Guide to London in 1900, allowing me to add some authentic flair to my messages (it's one thing to say you're writing from the Foreign Office, 'tis another to declare that an angry puppy destroyed the place and that you had to move next door into the India Office to resume operations!)

[Rhydderch Hael]

Hmmm.&nbsp; I can't tell how good Austria is.&nbsp; A textbook Balkan Gambit followed by a failure to submit doesn't say anything more than that Austria reads the books.&nbsp; Although, if I were you, I'd err on the side of caution and assume that Austria's at least decent, in which case any hints he may have been giving you regarding warring on Germany are just smokescreen.&nbsp; Austria almost never wins when Germany goes down.

Now that you point it out, if the Austrian is worth his salt, this whole civic disarray thing may have been a calculated move on his part to smoke out my intentions while looking purely innocent. A Turkish-Austrian alliance was obvious from Day 1: the Austrian had nothing to fear from the south. By failing to submit moves, he gets to hold off my suggested stab at Munich, heeding to German sentiments, while looking like he's still playing on my side of the line!

That, or he truly messed up. "Plan for the worst, hope for the best." Damn, you know how that works on my stomach? :blink: ;)

[Skandranon]

I don't know about maintaining France's trust. It takes quite a gullible France to believe that England is only clearing the docks with F Lon-Wal, as opposed to, say F Lon-NTS, which clears the docks and provides far superior position against Germany.

The German army supported? Then, it's either schizophrenic defence again (conceding Warsaw while covering Munich, meaning the German can't decide whether Austria is stabbing him or not) or just tactical deficiency. He may not realize it, but he doesn't want to be in Munich. If the Austrian's unsupported unit jumps for Munich the best result is a bounce. It lets him keep Mun AND have an A Kie to defend against you.

Hmmm. I wouldn't exhort for Austria to keep up pressure on Germany so much. Do that and you kick the doors open for Turkey, who, by virtue of Russia's collapse, has one of the better positions on the board right now. F Smy, and the Turkish horde suddenly wheels westward and hammers Austria. If I was Austria, I'd have resubmitted orders stabbing Turkey the moment I heard that Russia was out. But your concern is Turkey, who becomes a one-man Juggernaut as soon as he finishes taking Moscow, Warsaw and the Balkans. I'd keep Austria's A Tyl poking at Munich, if Austria's foolish enough to do it, but suggest that he get into a scrap with Turkey sooner rather than later, because delaying the war has no benefit for Austria in this case.

As for Italy, I'd encourage an attack against France and send him a false transmission or two about Austria keeping the pressure up on Germany. He'll leak it to Germany, who'll stay south just long enough for you to take him. Whether Austria actually keeps the pressure up on Germany doesn't matter quite as much as Germany believing that Austria will attack. I'd point out to Italy, as well, the French army in Piedmont. It isn't really that aggressive of a move, but I'd pretend it is. After all, if a more experienced player seems to think it's a big deal, Italy will come to think it's a big deal as well. Exploit his lack of experience and wax at length about "aggressive intentions", "first step toward an all-out offensive" and so on and so forth. Hopefully France builds F Mar to panic him further.

If France was prepping for an English attack, that boat has quite literally sailed with your builds of F Lvp and F Lon. Even if he builds F Bre you outnumber him 3-2. It will, however, stall your German offensive. You can't go anywhere until you have F NTS to avoid the Den-> NTS retreat when you dislodge F Den. But France won't be able to hurt you. France had his chance to kill you completely (or at least take you out of the game) in Spring '02; he didn't build right and he lost it.

As for your builds, I wouldn't have gone for France quite yet, because your reasoning is sound - he has only one fleet and so you don't need to worry about him right now. F Lvp and F Lon, though, is likely to warn him off the Italian venture, and seeing how Italy feels about Germany and Austria... Your builds may cause France and Italy to abort their barely started war, and that would be no good. Italy would attack Austria, paving the way for Turkey, and France and Germany would be allowed to concentrate on you. I hope you're extremely confident about how France will react, because if I were France, warning bells would be going off in my head.

I don't agree that the failure to order was deliberate; or, if it was, it was poorly timed. Austria needs to attack Turkey now that Russia's out. Austria's only hope is to attack Turkey. There's no way to negotiate it. Turkey would never agree to direct an offensive around Austria, funnelling armies up through Sev and out through Lvn and War. It's profoundly silly to run an attack that way and anyone should realize it. So Turkey will attack Austria, and vice versa - it's a done deal. The only thing that remains to be seen is who takes the initiative, and Austria forfeited it.