Net Hack

[Jarulf]

Anyone play Net Hack? With a new version out, I gave it a try, but I just understand how one is supposed to manage. I simply need help and advice on how to play it :)


First of all, it seems to have lots of those hiden walls and doors. That frequently make you end up with no place to go, sort of map out it all but no place to proceed. You can supposedly press "s" to search for such hidden stuff. In my experience it typically take up to 10 presses or more to find something. On top of that, you only find stuff adjacent to you. Are you really supposed to do that in every location??????

Food is just way out of hand. Even if I pick a char with relatively lot of food I always end up starving when I have explored just a little of the dungeon (especially if I have to search all the time).

How do you prevent geting killed?`I entered a level and was zapped by some lighting dwarf. One hit kill. You fight anything but lone monsters, instant kill too. Your horse/dog/whatever seems usefull but always get lost (unless you want to spend tons of time making sure he follows you) especially when you go down a level.

Any sugestions for easier starting chars than others? What is usefull? I found the rogues lockpicks very usefull for example with the limited play I managed.

Well, that is a start at leas.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I don't remember the last time I played, but it has to be over eleven years.

I don't remember there being that many hidden doors. Perhaps this new code puts more in than the old. However, it usually was pretty clear, after you cleared a level, where the hidden doors probably were. Since "s" would search the eight spaces around you, you could check out 3 squares of wall at a time. Again my memory might be failing, but I seem to remember that two or three searches were usually enough.

Food. You have to eat your kills. Some of them don't agree with you and you can get poisoned. IIRC the barbarian can eat more of the kills safely than the other classes (or, maybe he's the only one who can -- like I said, it has been a while).

Preventing getting killed is mostly just a matter of going slow. You should never try to fight two monsters at once. Try using a circular retreating movement so that one monster has to get around the other to get to you. In really bad cases, run away. Usually only one will follow you if you run so that the one is blocking the other. I don't remember any one hit kill monsters unless the character was already weakened -- but that too might have changed.

Your dog is pretty useful. Also an easy kill that you can eat IIRC. He has to be next to the stairs down when you go, so you need to circle the stairwell.

Because of the food issue, the barbarian is probably the easiest to play. But, like most things, it gets easier with practice.

BTW, where did you get a new version? Is it source or is it compiled for some system(s).

--Pete

[Roland]

BTW, where did you get a new version?  Is it source or is it compiled for some system(s).

...there was a new, completely graphical version out. This was about a month ago. I'd do a search for it on the web. And yes, it was compiled. Just a simple download. In fact, I think I have that download... *searches his HD* Yep! Sure do!

Falcon's Eye
NetHack

Never bothered to install it, but I have the file zipped up, if you want it.

[Mephista]

Your dog is pretty useful. Also an easy kill that you can eat IIRC.

That's awful! You shouldn't ever eat your dog! =(

*searches his HD* Yep! Sure do!

Yay, I've been wanting to play that some also. =)

[--Pete]

Hi,

No need to send it, I can just download it. Might do that when I get some time and see if it's as good as I remember (I doubt it) ;)

--Pete

[--Pete]

--Pete

[Dani]

I seem to remember that two or three searches were usually enough.

This like so many things in Nethack are dependent on your luck characteristic. Luckily (no pun intended), you can get a luckstone to help with that.

Your dog is pretty useful.  Also an easy kill that you can eat IIRC.

Killing your pet lowers your luck. Eating your pet gives you the "aggravate monster" intrinsic (usually bad), and sacrificing your pet makes the gods hate you.

Nethack has come quite a long way since early 90s, try it out.

There are also guides for it, that rival Jarulf's D1 guide in their completeness.

BTW, where did you get a new version?  Is it source or is it compiled for some system(s).

www.nethack.org for all possible versions and docs, and source code, etc. etc. etc.

[Walkiry]

Adittionally, there's a graphic frontend version for Windows floating around somewhere (I had it in my laptop's HD, a format got rid of it :D).

Don't know about the newest version, but in the older one I usually solved my food problems two ways:

1. Get a tinning kit. Many things are more edible when you put them in a can (homecooked hobbit IIRC :D). Tinning kits are not very uncommon. Always identify them because a cursed tinning kit will make poisonous food every time.

2. The healer carries a "stone to flesh" wand. Cast it on rubble and get tasty meatballs. You can use those meatballs to tame animals and get more companions to help you kill things.

I've never made it that far, I did get to the dead end of the mines once, but then I starved :lol:

[Tommi]

I haven't played the latest version, but I have played some of the earliers 3.1-3.3, I think, through more than a couple of times. ;) Hopefully, they haven't changed it much in the latest version. I guess not.

- The easiest class to start is probably the Barbarian. The turist is probably the hardest one, but he has the l33test quest item.
- One hit kills are not commong but take place. Sleep wands, death wands, etc. may one-hit kill you. But you may die to over-choking etc. too.
- Yes, you can search any location for secret doors, but it is not very hard to guess where it can be and where not. Extensive searching makes your sight better, by the way. You can use 'n', '100', 's' to search 100 times.
- You have to spend a lot of time waiting for your dog. If you get bored, buy a magic whistle. :) Anyways, the dog is not very useful later in the game.
- You can run with shift + direction. Useful if you know what you are doing.

Some quick tips:
- The altar is the most important place in the game. Gods give you artifacts, bless items, give luck, identify blesses and curses etc.
- Blessed scroll of genocide is your friend. (Type 'L' and press enter)
- Blessed scroll of charging is your friend, if you have a wand of wishing.
- Don't drink from the fountains, just don't.
- Stay away from sinks.
- Don't sit on thrones! You are not a king.
- Don't go to gehennom without 7 candles.
- Music instruments and the game of mastermind go together.
- Unless you have a good source of nethack knowledge, use your all gold on oracle, until you know how to complete the game.
- Ring of levitation is essential
- Ring of conflict is great
- Magic resistance is essential
- Reflection is essential
- Wish for a gray/silver dragon scale mail, if you don't have one.
- Carefully word your wishes! Any AD&D player should know this. :)
- Minotaurs don't like sleep wands.
- Wand of death is handy against air elementals. Ask Orcus for one.
- Problems with curses? Start making holy water and blending it with several normal water potions.
- Polymorphing huge item piles produces often interesting results.
- Polymorphing into a Vampire Lord is often a good idea.
- If you have a dragon scale armor, you always polymorph into a dragon. Your cloak and t-shirt get torn apart then.
- If you want to summon a demon lord, make enough blood sacrifices. Be prepared for a tough fight. :) (This is a very bad idea!!!)

Did I forget something? Well, if you have problems carrying stuff, invest in a blessed bag of holding.

Sorry these are pretty advanced tips, but I have playing the game since 1990 or so. You forget the basic pretty soon. But feel free to ask anything specific, and I'll answer.

Cheers,

Tommi

[Jarulf]

OK, I finally managed to get going. Seems that once you gain a few levels it goes much better. I am playing a Valkyrie this time by the way. Just turned out that it was the character I had when I finally managed to get going.

>- The altar is the most important place in the game.
>Gods give you artifacts, bless items, give luck, identify
>blesses and curses etc.

I think I prayed at the wrong altar. Now my god is mad at me and every time I trie to pray I lose a level or something bad like that :(

>- Unless you have a good source of nethack
>knowledge, use your all gold on oracle, until you know
>how to complete the game.

Well, I used some to buy a few things like a key, and some better equipment (although now I find even better). However, I can't remove my armor and it is NOT cursed). I figured out that the only way to save and reload so to speak is to save (which exists the game) copy the save file away, and restart game. Works great.

I will try to figure things out myself for a while more. Absolutely NO idea what to do with things like statues, looking glasses, and such silly objects though. Heck, I don't even know all the commands :)

>Did I forget something? Well, if you have problems
>carrying stuff, invest in a blessed bag of holding.

What does it mean when something is blessed? I have both a blessed +2 dwarf mail and a normal +2dwarf mail (or something like that). Seems to be no difference.

Also, is it generally better to have lesser armor with more + on it than a better armor with less + but with the same final AC? I know for weapons it is good with as high + as possible (at least in Baldurs Gate and it is based on D&D too).

I wonder if the game compile easilly in VS. I might just lower the food requirement, it get annoying at time :)

And yeah no wonder there is a good guide the source is freely available. You should have seen my Guide if I had access to the Diablo source :)

Ohh, and one more. Is there a way to figure out the magical properties of items? I find tons of armor and such to equip, but how do I figure out what it is? Sure the +X is possible by equiping but not more than that.

[Tommi]

OK, I finally managed to get going. Seems that once you gain a few levels it goes much better. I am playing a Valkyrie this time by the way. Just turned out that it was the character I had when I finally managed to get going.

Valkyrie is a good fighter too, a bit like a female barbarian without poison resist.

I think I prayed at the wrong altar. Now my god is mad at me and every time I trie to pray I lose a level or something bad like that :(

Black = Chaotic
Grey = Neutral
White = Lawful

If Gods favor you, you can save your life by praying at times.

One of the most important things in the game is to make sacrifices to your god. Very many sacrifices and good ones. That means normally monster corpses. You have to carry a fresh monster corpse to the altar (or kill it straightly on it) and then press alt-o to offer it. Some 20+ sacrifices are not uncommon. A wand of create monster is great for this job. If you sacrifice enough and have a good luck, you may get a Vorpal Blade for your valkyrie (she's neutral, IIRC). Don't sacrifice humans, unless you want that demon lord to step out.

Btw, you can convert altars to your own faith by making sacrifices upon them. It is uncertain and a bit risky, though.

I figured out that the only way to save and reload so to speak is to save (which exists the game) copy the save file away, and restart game. Works great.

I could call that cheating, but I did the same thing in Angband. :P But never in nethack. It's hardcore. :)

I will try to figure things out myself for a while more. Absolutely NO idea what to do with things like statues, looking glasses, and such silly objects though. Heck, I don't even know all the commands :)

Statues: Some monsters may be posing as statues. ;)
Mirrors: Generally pretty useless, IIRC. Blindfolds are very handy on the other hand.

What does it mean when something is blessed? I have both a blessed +2 dwarf mail and a normal +2dwarf mail (or something like that). Seems to be no difference.

"Blessed" makes some items better. A dwarven mithril shirt does not change, but a blessed scroll of identify identifies all your items while a normal scroll of identify identifies only one or a few. A blessed bag of holding has a better carrying capacity than a normal bag of holding. Also, blessing makes items more curse resistant. The first curse lowers the item from blessed to normal, and the second one is needed to take the item from normal to cursed.

Also, is it generally better to have lesser armor with more + on it than a better armor with less + but with the same final AC?

AFAIK, it is only the final AC that matters. Except that if you want to enchant your armors, the armor with less bonuses and higher base AC is less likely to go poof (IIRC happens only with +5 or greater bonuses). Some armors are also more heavy than others. Lighter armors are always better.

Ohh, and one more. Is there a way to figure out the magical properties of items? I find tons of armor and such to equip, but how do I figure out what it is? Sure the +X is possible by equiping but not more than that.

A scroll of identify is the best way. Find one, bless it by holy water (unless already blessed), put all items you want to identify to your inventory and read the scroll. And all items are identified.

You can also identify if an item is blessed, normal or cursed by dropping it on an altar. Black flash --> cursed. No flash --> uncursed. Bright flash (or something) --> Blessed. An altar of any god will do here. Then you may identify items by wearing them (such as a ring of levitation). An experienced player may also identify a ring of conflict etc. by the way they change the game when worn. You may name items/item-classes by some control (shift-n, IIRC).

Cheers,

Tommi

[Tommi]

Holy water is pretty important in the game, too. Here's how to make it.

First, you need potions of clear water. You can get them by finding them, but generally not enough. There are a few ways to make them. First one is to dilute potions by dipping them in fountains (needs two dilutings). This triggers the fountain's special ability, which can be pretty dangerous. A better and safer way is to wear boots of water walking or amulet of water breathing (you have to find them) and to step over a moat. A moat have infinite amount of water and you can basically dip all your potions there. If you are going to dive with the amulet, leave all stuff that rusts or can get wet (e.g. scrolls) on the shore first. A second way is to use a wand of cancellation on a pile of magical bottles. It changes them into water.

Ok. Now you should have lots of clear water potions. As many as you can get. Let's assume they all are uncursed (no holy water, or unholy water). Now drop all of them on your god's altar and pray (alt-p). Voilà, you've got lots of holy water (if your god is not angry with you).

Now you can make a following trick. Whenever you get a large supply of water potions, dip a single holy water potion in them. And voilà all your water potions change into holy water. This way, you basically get an unlimited supply of holy water potions (or limited only by potions you find).

If it is still unclear, what these potions do:
- Holy Water (blessed water): Blesses an item
- Normal Water: Wipes scrolls etc., nothing special
- Unholy Water (cursed water): Curses an item (useful sometimes in fact)

Cheers,

Tommi

[Jarulf]

Thanks for all the tips. The reason I save/reload, is that I don't want to restart every other minute. I want to explore the game, and since I die so often it would not be fun. I don't do it just to "cheat". I tried the eat corpse thing for example, and every 5 or so corpse make me poisonous and kill me almost immediately.

Also, I have been exploring the mine dungeons. I think I got to its 6th level when I fell through a pit into the 8th level. It was slightly different with long coridors and such. Anyway,, I found some fun things there but noted the right part did not have walls, just black space I could not enter. Strange.

Anyway, now I want to go up and on the level above me (which I never explored) I meet tons of very bad monsters. Up until now it was pretty much the same in all levels of the mines, but now I am swarmed with monsters that kills me very fast. SO basically I am trapped. Hmm, have to see how to solve that.

[Jarulf]

I don't remember there being that many hidden doors.  Perhaps this new code puts more in than the old.  However, it usually was pretty clear, after you cleared a level, where the hidden doors probably were.  Since "s" would search the eight spaces around you, you could check out 3 squares of wall at a time.  Again my memory might be failing, but I seem to remember that two or three searches were usually enough.

Ehh, nope, I frequently have to do it up to 20 times. Just now (in a new game since the other seems like an impossible situations geting swarmed with Bone Demons or something), I have an "empty" room. OK I can find a secret door. I replayed, after 12 searches, the door is not shown but a trap is insteead. Nother 7 searches and the door appears. And it was not an obious spot either (seems to teleport me to a vault or something).

What I hate most though is the "certain death" actions. Like eating a corpse that makes me poisenous. I can't avoid dying and yet I am supposed to eat corpses. Right now on this level, every time I run into a small dog, it is two hits and dead (and I can't hurt him) and there are other such situations too. Those are not fun and why I save/reload currently. I want to get past the first 2 levels!

[Tommi]

That's why the barbarian who is poison resistant is so good to start with. You don't die to poison. Btw, you can buy food at shops too. Rations are pretty good. Note that you can get poison resistance by eating certain critters, such as cave spiders. If dogs or cats are giving you trouble, try to tame them with a tripe ration (throw one at them). :)

Cheers,

Tommi

[Tommi]

If you become poisoned or sick from eating a corpse, pray (alt-p). It may save you, if your god is benevolent. A unicorn horn is another great item to cure diseases, poisons etc. Oh, yes, it should be added to the "essential items" list.

[Dani]

Thanks for all the tips. The reason I save/reload, is that I don't want to restart every other minute. I want to explore the game, and since I die so often it would not be fun.

Well, the nature of Nethack is one of frustration by purpose. It's the most sadistic game I've ever seen. ;)
In any case, you don't need to use the save, copy save trick. You can just press alt-x to enter exploration mode. It gives you an option not to die when you would die. It also let's you check your intrinsics, which is very helpful in learning how different actions affect your luck, and whether you can safely pray.

[BanditAngel]

I picked up nethack about 6 months ago, although I only managed to make it to ~level 8 routinely, and level 11 once.

When you first start off, exploration mode is VERY much your friend - It gives you the option of dying or simply coming back to life whenever something should kill you. The readme has instructions on how to enable it, and as an additional bonus, how to pick up a free wand of wishes with it :) (I had fun playing around with that and genocide scrolls :))

Don't pray too often, it pisses off your God. However, to survive you WILL need to pray on a fairly regular basis.

Elbereth is your friend from what I've heard, although I never used it.

NEVER piss off shopkeepers. They have wands of instant death. Note that kicking down locked doors will often leave you with an angry shopkeeper, although they can usually be placated if you pay for repairs.

Your dog is an invaluable aid to theft if you learn how.

Some corpses are less likely to poison you, and some give you nifty abilities. Figuring out which is which is an important lesson.

In general, keep track of what's happening to you and why, because there is a LOT to learn in this game. There are also some very cool little messages you can get when you do weird things :)

[Dani]

NEVER piss off shopkeepers. They have wands of instant death. Note that kicking down locked doors will often leave you with an angry shopkeeper, although they can usually be placated if you pay for repairs.

Hmm. While shopkeepers can be a bit hard for the low level character, they are by no means that lethal. And the wand they carry is usually not wand of death. Lootings shops is one of the ways to work the odds a bit more for you. Sure, it does have adverse effects on your luck, but the rewards are usually worth it.

[Jarulf]

OK, I am finally doing well with a character. I found a ring of regeneration and it is SUPER :)

I finished the sokoban now but the mines are no were to be found. Anyway, right now, I am constantly turned into a wearrat or something like that. Drop all armor and weapons and so on. VERY annoying. Anyway to fix it?

Also, seems one can't even have armor (shield helm and such) and a a bunch of items without being burdened despite having 18/02 in streangth :(

I found a bag of holding (I thin) is it good? Seems like to pick out and put in stuff I have to drop it first though, also annoying. Any tips?

Finally, should I skip searching for those mines (the "obvious" places for hidden tunnels and doors (like dead ends) don't have anything (after searching like 40 times). Should I just go on downwards?