To Americans...

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

I don't like this war.

I am not my Country. I am a singular citizen.

I am humble enough to know I can't possibly understand the entire situation. I'm wise enough to realize that the reasons provided as "justification" are not truths in themselves.

I make fun of your gung-ho thoughtlessness and incredible glossing-over of what you frequently term "patriotism". Please understand that I make fun of the individuals who cleave to these examples, not the population as a whole.

Thus, it would be the height of hypocrisy, now, for me to not offer you an apology.

Last night, yet again, a Canadian crowd booed the American National Anthem at a Hockey Game. Not the first time, and it seems not the last, either.

I suppose I could indicate several things: the location being Quebec, the overwhelming testosterone-flushed and IQ challenged nature of a Hockey fan (I rather dislike hockey fans, in general), the mob mentality of a crowd... but those are really beside the point.

Canadians are mirroring what's happening the world-over. We're chanting slogans, we're taking to the streets... and in some cases we're stepping on flags, booing National Anthems... etc etc.

As a Canadian, then: I'm sorry about that.

I can't change what you see on your TV. I can't change what CNN chooses to show as a reflection of my nation's thoughts. I can't justify what others are doing in the name of "Canadians everywhere"... and I certainly can't offer any insight into why a crowd, at a sporting event, would choose to show such an intense amount of disrespect for another country... ANY country, much less our neighbor to the south, and who many consider our "best friend" on the level of nations.

I don't support your war... but I'm worried about your soldiers.
I don't like your President... but I'm worried about your citizens.
I don't like your policies... but I'm wise enough to know that YOU, as a citizen, didn't put them there.

I'm one citizen up here. Only one voice, and you can't hear me on your television. You can't hear my concern over the soundbites and the rhetoric and the speeches and the opinion polls and the "this is live" telecasts...

..but I am still here. This Canadian doesn't support your war... but he sure as hell doesn't step on your flag or boo your Anthem.

Some of us are a tad bigger than the lowest common denominator.

But, on behalf of the others, who can't see past themselves and their moment in the cameras: I'm sorry about that.

If you'd like... I'd like to buy you a coffee. It's what a good neighbor does when someone's having a tough time.

*tips helm*

[DeeBye]

Booing a national anthem is incredibly disrespectful. I've seen this happen more and more lately.

Detroit Piston fans booed the Canadian national anthem when they met the Toronto Raptors in the playoffs. NY Islanders fans booed "O Canada" when the Toronto Maple Leafs came to visit (the Toronto fans cheered loudly when the American anthem was played before the next Isles-Leafs game -- it was a great show of forgiveness and maturity on their behalf). Never mind the fact that 60% of the Islanders team was composed of Canadians, including the team captain and goaltender. I'm sure they LOVED the fact that their own fans booed the anthem of their home country.

I'm not sure what is prompting this utter rudeness by these fans. It's crazy.

I remember a few years back when the Toronto Blue Jays met the Braves in the World Series (can you tell I'm a Toronto fan?). The U.S. Marine (?) Color Guard actually held the Canadian flag UPSIDE-DOWN. I'm sure it was an honest mistake (albeit an incredibly stupid one), but a lot of people I know took it as a slap in the face.

I honestly think that it is about time that national anthems are taken completely out of sporting events. Sports and patriotism really have nothing to do with each other anyways. Indeed, it can be the source of trouble. Witness countless soccer (or "football", to those outside N.America) brawls.

I can understand fans cheering for the home team. I can understand fans booing the opposing team. But booing the national anthem of the opposing team crosses the line. Since some fans can't show common decency, I say we yank the anthems.

Or let Rosanne sing. Your choice.

[yangman]

non-textlated

[Archon_Wing]

Well said, Nicodemus. The world would run a lot smoother with people showing each other respect and a less of that "us" and "them" attitude.

[--Pete]

... thank you.

Hi,

We don't always agree. And I have been harsh to you in the past. But I was wrong, and foolish. While we may never be friends, you do have my respect. I've said that to you before in private, but since I insulted you in public, a public apology is only fitting. You definitely have mine.

--Pete

[Zarathustra]

-nt-

[The Luminaire]

Respect is something hard to find in message boards. Harder even, is it to earn that respect, especially among a tough crowd like the one here at The Lounge.

But I must say, I think you've earned it. *tips helm in return*

Well said Nic, well said.

[Jester]

I don't think it takes much to see my opinions on the war, but I'm throwing in my chips with you.

Booing the anthem? What, is that some kinda stupid joke? As if their hockey players (many Canadians and Eastern Europeans...) declared war on Iraq? Bloody stupid.

Burning their flag? Crissakes. I don't like full half the places that flag's found its way to, but it still stands for a lot of decent and good things. I'm the first person to defend your basic flag burner, but burning someone ELSE'S flag? Bah. There's protest, there's symbolism, and then there's just plain old stupid.

Jester

[Dani]

Add one Euro feeling much the same. Very well written!

[NuurAbSaal]

This Euro feels the same too.

You rule

Nuur

[BanditAngel]

While the apology is nice and all... it seems a bit rude to go and insult hockey fans in the middle of it... I mean, that sort of defeats the whole point of being nice and apologizing. I'm sure you didn't mean it, though :)

[whyBish]

Don't worry, over here we are burning flags rather than stepping on them... and stealing signs & verbally abusing pro-american anti-anti-war protestors ;)

[Striker]

Boy, you go on vacation with limited contact to the "real world" for a few days, and look what happens. The US goes to war, the Lounge is apparently considered a "hacking site" by some, and Nico makes a post that warms my heart. :)

The offer of coffee is returned, you hockey-hating canuck you (I didn't think such a thing existed ;)).

[Occhidiangela]

Thank you so much for your message. For my part, I know how you feel, a little bit, when you understand how embarrassed I felt some years ago, during the World Series that Joe Carter of the Toronto Blue Jays won with a walk off Home Run in game 6, when the Marine Color Guard hoisted the Canadian Colors upside down (I think it was in game 2). It was an accident, but I was very embarrassed as an American and a Navy Man that our folks had not taken the care to get it right.

We are neighbors, with a long and generally undefended border between us.

Thanks, neighbor. :)

Edit: can't spell!

[TaMeOlta]

Thanks ! I'll take ya up on the coffee , a Dunkin Donuts Great One , milk n sugar , plus a Boston cream donut :P

[Medicine Man]

I'm right with you there, Nico. The Americans aren't bad blokes despite how annoying the media and politicians may be on the North American continent. In the interests of fostering understanding and tolerance across the globe we would do well to remember that wanker politicians and reporters are exported from every modern country in the world. :)

On a more serious note: I hope the allied expeditionary force is being real damned careful. I'll admit that I don't much care about the Iraqi people but the thought of American soldiers being wasted in some blue-blood's personal vendetta infuriates me. I hope a mountain of WMDs are discovered and destroyed in Iraq and I hope that the American military meets their objectives with minimal casualties. These are two things that would set my mind at ease.

Cheers.

[Wiccan]

i am a american college educated but the knowledge i learned is slowly dwindling away from my memory... so i will address this with the best way i can.. i hate war... and i hate how everyone is acting on this subject, as i see it canucks are good people, they are very good workers and good friends{not to mention good drinking buddies}my father servered in the vietnam war he was in the think of things over there, as i see it now this war is over something much more than oil{ dont start correcting me just yet people}
But i have heard that when the vietnam war was going we protested it and we spat on ARE own soldiers because if how the war was going and how much america was divided up on the subject everyday are men and woman are over there fighting to protect are INTERESTS do the right thing....

This war just like the vietnam war all over again country divided up again... we want to freedom to reign over in the middle east and get rid of dictator that was hiding his weapons from the inspections... last couple of weeks i been watching my new channel and they found scud missle launchers and being fired{ the un inspection hans blick" they was not supposed to have them, they TOLD US they destroyed them"} now they find a chemical factory that may or may not been making chemical weapons then comes saddam to say if we invade bagdad we will use are chemical weapons remind me What the un inspection team kept saying there are no chemical weapons just long range missle that we destroyed, and we have all the paper work to PROVE that they did destroy all there chemical weapons......


if they did destroy there chemical weapons.. then why the chemical suits and the threat to use them...
answer is easy THEY LIED and now there are having to pay the price to try to blindside the US and europe...

as much as i hate war, i really hate how saddam was trying to play the countries now we are there to get rid of him and show that the US means bussiness, ENOUGH is ENOUGH, president bush even gave saddam chance to leave peacefully... now the piper has played his last song and its time to pay wonder if saddam has the change to pay.. only time will tell

the reason i say this is because my wife is over there..... and i hope it ends soon, i want wife my back and fully functional

edit=took a word out

[D-Dave]

we spat on ARE own soldiers because if how the war was going and how much america was divided up on the subject everyday are men and woman are over there fighting to protect are INTERESTS do the right thing....

Sorry to correct you but as far as I know soldiers were spat at because things got out of hand in Vietnam (for example GIs killing women and children in Mi-Lei witnessed by US-Reporter).
To make this clear, I think it was wrong to blame every soldier for those who freaked out, but on the other hand understandable due to the fact that the ones resposible were not prosecuted.

answer is easy THEY LIED and now there are having to pay the price to try to blindside the US and europe...

the reason i say this is because my wife is over there..... and i hope it ends soon, i want wife my back and fully functional

Wrong! The ones who pay the price are your wife, the soldiers on both sides, the civilians and probably all of us by living in a world in which peace is further away then before.
Why I do think this way? Well, the result of the UN-Inspections backed by a military threat was an Iraq under control. Let me repeat this Iraq was under control, weapons were destroyed (no, I'm not naive enough to believe that there are not plenty of weapons left) and Inspectors made at least some sort of progress.
The Result of war so far: dozends of US and British Troops killed, hundreds of Iraqi soldiers killed, plenty of civilian victims, destabilizing influence on the whole Region and worst of all creating symphathy for Hussein within the neighbour countrys which before did clearly support disarmament of Iraq.


By the way, the fact that Mr. Bush jr. has already made contracts to rebuild Iraq, interestingly only with Companys closely related to Mr. Bush due to their funding of his election campaign realy makes me think. So yes,

US means bussiness

I can live with that, but what realy made me angry was him calling upon god's support then taking off to spend the weekend at Camp David while "his" soldiers are in battle. (first Weekend of War)
Well, what can one expect from a guy who was less then average in school and university, spend his life into his 40s boozed and winning a presidential election not by being favored by the majority of voters but being favored by a court mainly empowered by his Daddy.

[Occhidiangela]

"Sorry to correct you but as far as I know soldiers were spat at because things got out of hand in Vietnam (for example GIs killing women and children in Mi-Lei witnessed by US-Reporter). To make this clear, I think it was wrong to blame every soldier for those who freaked out, but on the other hand understandable due to the fact that the ones resposible were not prosecuted."

Captain Ernest Medina and Lt Calley were both tried by Courts Martial. Medina was acquitted (He was Calley's company commander) and Calley was punished.

"Not Prosecuted?"

My Lai Court Martial Link You might find that of interest.

Or is your contention that the punishment did not go far enough up the chain of command? Many folks I have talked to about this issue, who served in the Army or Marine Corps in Viet Nam, were of the opinion that the scythe did not cut far enough up the chain of command. That position may have some merit, as is the position that the 90 day wonder OCS grads who became platoon commanders were a real mixed bag.

The reason the platoon commander, Calley, was held accountable and tried was because his inability to maintain proper discipline == to condone or order the attack on villagers who were not necessarily VC == was a violation of a variety of regulations and laws. It is instructive that the Warrant Officer, the Huey pilot, who reported what he saw to Brigade Headquarters knew darned well that what was happening was wrong. What is interesting is how Medina was let go. I remember reading a great deal about this case as it was happeninng. The coverage then was a mixed bag, but the overwhelming sentiment was

"How the hell could Americans do that?"

PS: You sig, however, strikes me as Spot On! :)

[Wiccan]

yes but how long till it gets out of hand over there remeber some of the soldier are dressing as civillans and faking surrender and fighting us, this is what i should have said how long till the side that protest us for killing civilans on purpose of defending are selfs.... i under stand that fighting to do what they think is right... i hope they dont just start spitting on are men and women when they come back" for how things got carried away"

and to add to the mix we have people dressed in white robes with bombs straped to there chest...... dont remeber there name, so forgive me... and onto of it we have a regime that will use its own people and kill them to make the forces of the coalitions look bad, if i seem a little proud of what my wife and or all men's wifes or wife's husbands over there.. then i am damn proud of everyone wife. a and for the record of the un inspection teams they did not work... saddam was playing with them no if, ands, or buts they was lied to and they lied to US so what if we was showing are muscle to the world on the insepection team that was trying to disarm... and geting the runaround and destroying usless things that was some what dangerous but the really dangerous was hidden from us its called" we will show you what we wish for you to see and destroym but we will not let you see what we really have and wish to keep from your inspections" game

12 years for saddam to disarm lol can you say make up numbers... just to make the the US look like a bully what i see is the US is protecting are investments{oil feilds yes i know i hate this as much as anyone by saying this but its plain and simple we are protecting are investment.... and but we are also freeing the people they are also are investment how else are we going to get oil from over there if we dont try to free the people, cant talk to the dead about oil if there are no people to give are money to if there dead}even though my wife does have very good skill on talking to the spirits, but i dont think she over there to do that!

edit= got most of my typos not all of them