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03-23-2003, 10:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2003, 10:59 PM by [wcip]Angel.)
Latest news include a bunch of Iraqi soldiers surrendering -but not really- ... meaning they pretended to surrender only to open fire on US troops. Killed 5 and took several others prisoner... That can't possibly be legal, but I guess everything's allowed in love and war..
What I can't seem to fathom is why they didn't see this coming. Are they really so naive that they'll buy anything? Hasn't this trick been used before? Isn't this just a slightly modified version of the Trojan horse? ... If I ran a platoon, I'd certainly tell my soldiers not to trust anything with a weapon in hand, no matter what he/she says. What if someone had plastic explosives around their chest, ready to blow up the base when they were brought back? .... careless, very careless.
Too bad about the American soldiers.. Loss of life in war is inevidable, but this could have been prevented..
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03-23-2003, 11:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2003, 11:10 PM by Rhydderch Hael.)
Actually, the same trick was played on the Coalition in the last war. I recall a tale where a platoon of Iraqi tanks made an approach with their turrets reversed, the tankers' signal of truce, then engaged the Coalition forces who came forward to accept the surrender.
Just can't remember if it was true, or a propoganda yarn meant to convey an Iraqi lack of honor.
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
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Rhydderch Hael,Mar 23 2003, 10:42 PM Wrote:I'll lay you odds that the amount of air traffic and helicopter flights being conducted in the war zone are akin to the road traffic of rush hour on an American freeway. The question isn't whether or not accidents are going to happen with that tempo; but rather to question the level of perfection somenone is demanding when they point these out as anomalies. Nah. I mean, how hard can it be to make sure the other choppers flying alongside you are at least far enough away that both your rotors are spinning safely away from each other? Besides which, with all the so-called technology the US has, you'd think they'd be able to install proximity detectors(my dad's car has one. It makes a beep when something is close, like about 1.5m, behind while reversing) to help guide the pilots in case of sleep deprivation.
Interesting note, from what I heard, one of the choppers was downed by a Patriot. Sounds like what happened in Afghanistan(Canadians got shot down) Is it just me or are the US missile guys a little TOO trigger happy when it comes to shooting down their allies?
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03-24-2003, 04:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2003, 05:23 AM by Rhydderch Hael.)
AtomicKitKat,Mar 23 2003, 08:24 PM Wrote:Nah. I mean, how hard can it be to make sure the other choppers flying alongside you are at least far enough away that both your rotors are spinning safely away from each other? Besides which, with all the so-called technology the US has, you'd think they'd be able to install proximity detectors(my dad's car has one. It makes a beep when something is close, like about 1.5m, behind while reversing) to help guide the pilots in case of sleep deprivation. Gee, golly. That would be awful swell, if military choppers had the foresight to fly only in clear weather and daytime so that they could easily see each other. Then again, that would kinda put a kybosh on the whole idea of using a helo under the pressure of war: when you have to fly out into thunder country no matter how windy, dusty, foggy, or dark it is outside!
This anti-collision device on your dad's car: how slow does he have to be driving in the first place to warn him of an object and allow him to stop in time? At flying speeds, most proximity warnings in close-formation flight would be too short, too late to do anything reasonable about it.
Quote:Interesting note, from what I heard, one of the choppers was downed by a Patriot. Sounds like what happened in Afghanistan(Canadians got shot down) Is it just me or are the US missile guys a little TOO trigger happy when it comes to shooting down their allies?
RAF Tornado, tagged by a Pat when coming back from a sortie. Misfortunes of war.
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
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Like I said, the technology IS there. You'd think that if the US could spend a million bucks building a missile which can identify a camel's rear end as a tank, they'd be willing to spend more trying to preserve the lives of their men. Or maybe it's just that my government has only 3 million people(and a few 100k combat-ready soldiers) versus the US' 300 million population and(about 1 million?) soldiers, so their views on the preciousness of life are different. And I'm pretty certain that missile accidents could be avoided, if only the gunners would be more attentive and less jumpy.
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03-24-2003, 05:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2003, 05:18 AM by Rhydderch Hael.)
There are limits to what technology can do, especially when a human brain is still in on the loop. Imagine two Blackhawks traveling at 140 knots that meander into each other in the dead of night. Toss out an arbitrary closure speed, say, 40 knots.
That's, what, 45 miles per hour? At that speed, what distances do you have to sound a warning and get an 8-ton helicopter to stop going where it was first going, and change course away from doom? 50 feet? 100 feet? What if they're converging at faster speeds? What if rate of closure hit 100 knots? They have to be, what, 200 feet of warning? When was the last time you kept a minimum distance of 50 feet away from the next car, at all times, every time?
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
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You're looking at the situation the wrong way. I'm only referring to choppers flying BESIDE one another, not one in front of the other(one above the other might still work) Therefore, the proximity warning would still be valid, since if you're flying at 100 mph and the other guy is also flyig around 100 mph, you should theoretically be able to veer away from a collision if you were both flying broadside to one another:
Like this:
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Instead of like this:
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Even if they were flying in a wedge/diamond/V formation, provided the 2 choppers were NOT flying STRAIGHT INTO ONE ANOTHER, the proximity warning would still be sufficient:
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After all, if you were trying to keep a particular formation(for whatever strategic reason), you'd obviously try to keep the same speed as your formation buddies right?
Assuming the aircraft is about 8 feet wide by 20 feet long, with about 20 feet of rotor blades(from one end to another, the diameter of the circle would be about 20 feet), the ideal distance would be to keep an airspace of about 35 feet apart from another aircraft, so a warning at 35 feet or less of proximity in about a 120 arc on either side should be sufficient.
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