How to beat the Lag?

[Telemont]

Background:
I origionally started playing Diablo II a long while back, but I quit before Lord of Destruction ever came out. Recently my girlfriend has been dying for a game we could play side by side and we decided to crack open Diablo II again. The biggest problem with this is Battle.net play and the fact I play on a 56k dialup. Not pretty for Diablo. But I can get used to it, it just takes some forethought into character creation. So that's what I wanted to ask the boards about. Using your experiance of Lord of Destruction, what kind of character builds have you found to be extremely lag resistant?

A Lag Resistant Build:
20 Hurricane
20 Dire Wolves
20 Grizzly Bear
I was thinking of using at least +5-10 druid skill items, which would give me an average level of Oak Sage and Cyclone Armor. The Summons I hope will provide a meat shield against some of the lag and dish out damage in moments where I am hanging. I want my summons to be very strong, hence the high amount of Dire and Grizzly. The Hurricane I want to use as passive no attention damage that will keep getting dealt while I am lagging, and a support for my summoned minions in the chill to prolong their life and speed the kills along.

I have no idea what Merc to use, or gear, since I've not played LOD. I would love suggestions and critiques on the build!And I would love to hear about any builds you forum goes have that you think would resist lag! I would hate for my Battle.net experiance to come down to a single character =P Thankyou ahead of time!

[WarBlade]

How much lag are we talking about here?

I usually play on a semi consistant ping of 400 to 600 which is a fantastic improvement over the IP games I used to dial into that were hosted in Europe. Virtually any character is fine for that, although perhaps you mean "able to survive lag spikes"?

If that's the case, then high blocking shield users usually work ok. Missile characters can generally just hang back and be safe from the rear. Vitality investments help.

[Telemont]

Anywhere from 800-1200 ping seems to be the average for me, though some nights I can get overcome by waves of up to 6000 ping for a half hour or more. I do enjoy playing, regardless of that, but it's oftentimes frustrating for me to be killed by things I never even see on my screen. I've been known to sit in town until the wave passes, then rejoin my group.

[Premezilla]

20 Dire Wolves
20 Grizzly Bear

Ummm.....correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only allowed to have either wolves or grizzlies? I remeber reading something or the other in a manual or strategy guide that you have to choose between wolves and the bear.....but my memory may be skewed, as it was a long time ago. Any, a good merc to use would be the act 2 nightmare defensive, as it provides with the holy freeze aura. If you give him good armor and a weapon, he can hold his own, and keep the enemies at bay until the lag passes. I myself use the act 2 nightmare defensive, and I find him very effective. Just a thought.

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Telemont,

I have the same issue: when I play, good lag is 1500 ping. As such, just about all my characters are Ranged characters, yet I build them as if they were melee ones - so when I get into a nasty situation, they can handle it. As such, they generally have good DR, my Amazons all have high dodge skills, I use minions where I can to keep things back, try to keep life respectable, and learn what skills/spells to not use. I am almost always so desynced as to be three screens off where I think I am, and things regularly come to a crawl when I play. Often, if I've not played for a while, this is certain death over, and over, and over again; once I get back into it though, my characters are able to cope. I find town portal to be my best friend: when things get really bad, it usually solves the situation...though if they are *too* bad, it doesn't do much at all ;)

At any rate, if you simply make a durable character, that's about all you can do.

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Premezilla,

Indeed, but I suspect the intention was more based on how points in Dire Wolves adds to the life of all your summons; you would then have a huge-life Bear, that can pack a real punch...though, IMO, 5 in wolves and 1 in bear is enough, with total-slvl20 Oak Sage of cause ;)

[Archon_Wing]

Sorry, no one is safe from the Lag monster. :o

[Telemont]

I was actually most interested in playing with 3 Dire Wolves up and only switching to Grizzly when the situation demands a bigger, thicker beast to dish it out. However since my primary source of damage is summons, it seemed useful to pump Grizzly for the damage upgrade to Dire Wolves. Not to mention having a high level Grizzly to throw around in other situations probably wouldn't hurt. I've heard it can be nearly necessary in Hell.

I take it Holy Freeze and Hurricane Chill would stack to some wonderful effect? I've read something similar in an Avenger guide. Additionally, thankyou for the suggestions Elric!

Sorry, no one is safe from the Lag monster.

True, but I just thought people might have ideas on builds that were naturally resistant to lag just by thoughtful playstyle or the nature of that character. Some characters can take it in stride, and some.. just splat?

[Archon_Wing]

Sorry, that was a joke ;)

Well, my summoning necro, with his army of mages, skeletons, revives, with a golem and merc does battle well in the midst of lag.

[Premezilla]

Hail Premezilla,

Indeed, but I suspect the intention was more based on how points in Dire Wolves adds to the life of all your summons; you would then have a huge-life Bear, that can pack a real punch...though, IMO, 5 in wolves and 1 in bear is enough, with total-slvl20 Oak Sage of cause ;)

Ah hah! I understand now.........
but I have an interesting, albeit strange theory. Spirit of Bars to beef up both you and the merc? Against heavy-duty melee attack-using monsters, the Spirit of Barbs can return damage dealt, thus making it a kind of "non-attack attack." You can dismiss this idea if you wish, I was merely pondering the possibilities........

I am done now.

[south]

Hi
My connection is similar to yours, it sometimes pulses :) spiking 1 or 3 seconds every 15- 20 seconds. yes you can build like that have a look at the HC crowd at adapt their knowledge. I have all chars except the Expansion ones druid and sin. From Barbs to necs. Nec being the most sensitive to lag, Zons usually the least.
MMMmmm advice build good mercs.
I have 3 rogues , 1 thorns act 2, and 5 might act2, had a very good barb merc :( pity you can only have 1 merc per character he was very good.
Basically they serve 2 purposes the act as shields diverting, distracting attacks away from you, and they give you a idea were the server believes you are, so if you run back to where he is on the map you will sync up faster.
So basically give each of your characters a merc and build them well. according to type of play and char you can pick act 1, act 2 , act 5 mercs.
Some of my chars have gone through 3 mercs, because of different character levels or changes of opinion.

[FenrisWulf]

Originally posted by Premezilla
Spirit of Bars to beef up both you and the merc? Against heavy-duty melee attack-using monsters, the Spirit of Barbs can return damage dealt, thus making it a kind of "non-attack attack." You can dismiss this idea if you wish, I was merely pondering the possibilities........

In general, it would be more effective to have a Thorns Mercenary, and then use Oak Sage. More damage returned, and more Life with which to return the damage.

[Premezilla]

Salutations Fenriswulf,

That's an excellent idea.....a beefed up, damage-dealing, non-attacking attacking merc! Thanks for the tip.

(P.S. Elric...........I like how you do the "hail so-and-so" so I couldn't figure out what to use, so I decided on salutations...........although you can't outdo the original ;) ?

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Premezilla,

There's plenty you could use...

Hail...
Greetings.
Well Met...
Aiya...
Konichiwa...
Gutten Tag...
Ic grete þe...

:D

[Walkiry]

Every time I hear/read "salutations" I subconciously hear an "OOhhhhhmmmmmmmm" sound in the distance.

[XOblivionX]

....ok....i think you might want to go see a physchiratrist about that oooohhhhmmmmmm problem... :blink:

Anyways, a build to beat lag....hmmm.....well if were talking about an average of about...say 1500 or so ping, id go with a BIG FAT meat shield...Sooo...yep, id go with druid.

Max out Grizzly, got the raw power to attack, max oak sage AND GET A DEFIANCE MERC!!! I cant stress that enough!! Also, get a generous amount to shockwave and hurricane, shockwave providing the stun for you bear (and perhaps even enough to last through a lag spike) and hurricane dealing constant damage to enemies as well as its cold effect...basically, with hurricane on, an act 2 nm holy freeze merc would be abundant.

Glad i could help...and remeber...HIDE!!! COWER!!! AND STAY BEHIND A HIGH LVL BARB AT ALLLLLLL TIMES!!!

~~Oblivion

Ps. I got my new avatar i hope you guys like it...it better work..,,,

[Telemont]

Since I'm starting up again pretty rusty, and the fact that my Girlfriend probably won't like her first build, I decided to try to make my first lag resistant build out of something I was more familiar with: the Necromancer! (Overlord my foot, this is a Rangelord!) What I ended up with was definitely quirky. Not as lag resistant as I would have liked, but extremely automomous, and I thought I would share a few observations!

Necromancer: Ganon (Yes, my characters all use Zelda names)
Level: 29
Summoning: Skeleton Mastery 12, Raise Skeleton 1, Raise Mage 7(+3)
Bone: Teeth 1, Corpse Explosion 1, Bone Spear 3.
Curses: Dim Vision 7(+3).
(I bought a beautiful Yew Wand of the Magus: 20% Faster Cast. +3 Dim Vision. +3 Raise Mage in Act II) :ph34r:

1) All ranged enemies seem to have two parts to their offensive AI. a) Move into position. B) Attack. Regardless if this is a spellcaster or an archer they all share that aspect of their AI. Dim Vision utterly shuts them down, often hitting the enemy before they get past the 'Move into Position' phase!

2) Any enemy that bumps into something has to check it's pathing again. Pathing either requires seeing where it is going or an entire AI check to remember what it was doing. In this way, Dim Vision also stops enemies that bump into eachother.

3) All enemies seem to check AI Between every attack. As mentioned on Elric's site and other guides Tempting Fate works wonders with cursing incomming melee monsters. This seems to force them to try to pick a target, one they cannot see through Dim Vision.

4) Inevitably, one skeleton make will parallel my motions and move next to me in it's patrol AI. This causes tempting fate to be difficult, and likely the death of the Magi, so most battles need at least a 1:1 kill ratio. In Normal Hell so far it is often the case for that one Magi to become a sacrificial lamb, dying for love of it's country and resetting the AI of the enemies that quickly clump up around that spot.

5) Dimming the edges of the screen at suspected 'Trouble Spots' is a terrific way for me to block off further enemy assault by preventing monsters from passing the closer dimmed monsters. I can creep forward this way in extreme saftey if I am feeling that cheap.

6) Most melee monsters seem to exhibit a 'Follow the other guy' AI, in which case they can be dimmed during their following, before they switch to the offensive when in range of my Magi. I guess they put that in there so you couldn't activate just one at a time.


7) I started calling Dim Vision the "One Shot Wonder". Most monsters get to make one single lonesome shot, which they make at the same time you Dim them. Then their AI tries to find a new target and fails. This definitely includes melee monsters who will rush you to attack, get off one failed swing from your friendly Tempter, then stand around like lambs for the slaughter!

8) The AI seems to request a check when you move out of a monsters line of sight. Do monsters have a line of sight? A melee monsters that I've dimmed will follow me to the ends of the earth in a relatively straight line, but run circles around him and he forgets you like last weeks lunch.

9) One wonderfully useful tactic I use is dimming a clump of melee as they run up to me, then swinging around a half circle to their rear ends. This accomplishes a lot, though it is on the risky side. a) The entire clump of enemies completely forgets my ugly mug. B) All my loyal Magi are forced to move forward and spread out into attack range. c) This might activate more distant mobs which rush to attack me, in which case I Dim their life expectancy and repeat! I can get entire chains going like this! Over and over again! When it's time to stop, I just circle back around to let activated monsters thump against existing dimmed monsters and they go out of commission too!

10) My Magi tended to always teleport ahead of me when I got too far away. Infact, they did this so often in the restrictive quarters of the Arcane Sanctuary or Maggot Lair that I started monopolizing on it. Often they will leap to the fringers of my vision only to have that area quickly Dimmed. On one side, this usually put them next to a number of active monsters that were just itching for some calcium. On the other side, this allowed more Magi to be in range of the enemy, since only a few could be on the offense at one time in cramped spaces.

11) Dim Vision essentially blows away anything that even dares cast a spell! All those reanimators from Fallen Shamen, Ancients, Flayer Shamen and even Corpulsents just get depressed and wait to die! About the only time they get up the courage is when they are standing directly over a potential spell target. This also completely neuters those itchy monsters like Hierophants, Night Lords, Maggots and Flesh Spawners. They practically line up for their date with Magi luvin!

12) No matter what, Dimmed creatures don't have much else to do but pace. And boy do they. Usually when they are all clumped up and spacing out they have nowhere to go but to inch towards my troops. This really is the biggest problem I foresee in Hell difficulty. Several times my Magi stubbornly hold their ground against the creeping doom of 'Inching' knights, spawners, venom lords and what have you. I can't summon up reinforcements since they inch up over the corpses, and I steadily and slowly start losing troops. But that's why I'm going to start a heavy investment in Bone Spear. With the same Mana:Damage ratio as Bone Spirit, I'm going to love throwing spears through clumps of 6, 9 or even 12 monsters at once! 3024-3168 damage for the cost of a single Bone Spirit? Sign me up.

I think it's official. Dim Vision rocks my socks! :lol:

[XOblivionX]

Ah, so i hope you like ure build......however there is a serious flaw in it

(thinks to find a flaw in the build)..........................................................Ohhhhh wait ive got it ive got it!!!

Because you are playing in normal and nightmare, you will have little if not no resistance to your strategy. However, as you progress your way to hell, you forget that there are many resistances in your way...Therefor neutralizing your skeletal magi. Also, you greatly overestimate the power of bone spear. True it inflicts incredible damage to the unwary and espeicially the ones with low defence and health, its damage is greatly reduced when facing off with one super powered monster (especially one with lots of defence and magical resistance) Lastly, in act 5, you will face extreme resistance against succubi and strygan dolls, who can cast 'blood mana' on you. Blood mana will make you sacrifice life instead of mana when using a spell. And because of the many resistances and the rather frail defence skeletal magi provide, it will fall on you to case bone spear more and more.

Using dim vision will help you greatly when facing off large groups of monsters, however, it is undeniable that it will take much more time than a normal necromancer should take (which is pretty long on account of you must kill a monster yourself before you can take advantage of it unless you have a golem)

The solution? The only thing i can think of is corpse explosion... :(

[Telemont]

The build is so so, but it's getting me unrusty fairly nicely, which is what I wanted it to do. I'm into Hell now and things are sailing along pretty smoothly, but I'm definitely itching to try out the Druid and Assassin for the first time.

Dim Vision is so powerful that the Magi tactic is actually holding up pretty well. It's a fragile house of cards, but a house of cards built right can hold up against a mountain. The downside is quite simply how LONG it takes for me to kill anything now. I just stand around in nearly complete saftey and wait for things to die. And they will die. Sooner or later. The Magi have been dying in one hit since Act II Nightmare, and wether it's 70 damage or 700 they still do their job.
The only thing I absolutely MUST Bone Spear are Poison Immunes.

Which brings up a question I have. I'm curious what you mean by "

True it inflicts incredible damage to the unwary and espeicially the ones with low defence and health, its damage is greatly reduced when facing off with one super powered monster (especially one with lots of defence and magical resistance)

."

Is Bone Spear influenced by the creatures defense value? I thought it was a magical attack that did flat listed damage, modified by resists. And as far as I know, positive resists take out their chunk no matter which way you dish it. Wouldn't two 200 damage Bone Spears do the same as one 400 damage Bone Spirit against 75% resistance? (Not counting their individual merits)

Either way it's time to start a more fun build!

Oh, my Girlfriend has a question. How often does Vengance shatter bodies?

She's looking to combo Vengance with Redemption and a high defense as a form of passive crowd control just by outlasting them! (One or two swings, kill, +120 Life and Mana)

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Telemont,

Danged if I know what defense has to do with Bone Spear: Magical Resistance on the other hand ;) Also, your maths is quite correct 2*200 = 400.

As for Vengance and shattering, it's the same as any physical attack with cold damage added to it...I THINK it's 20%, but I could be remembering wrong. If I am, someone'll nit me for sure :)