$315 USD... for a broken sword.

[Yrrek]

Those Orcish "scimitars" were driving me nuts every time I would watch the movie. He thinks those are SCIMITARS??? *faints* It looks more like a club made of metal than anything else. Somebody wasn't doing their research on that one....

[TheDragoon]

If I had $315, I think I'd have to go buy the Silent Brass mute system for my trombone. But if I had $630 (+tax)....

[--Pete]

Hi,

Yes, there are a few master craftsmen. Even some that get raw ore and work from there. And the blades they produce are, just like the originals, a real work of art. And there lies the rub, at least for me.

Just as I would not want a reproduction of, say, the Mona Lisa, on my wall (but would not at all object to the original ;) ) I do not particularly care for a reproduction of an historical sword. The original has a quality about it from its history. One can hold it and contemplate those that held it when it was state of the art. One can consider the battles it saw (or, if later) the duels it fought in. A replica, no matter how good, just does not have that feeling attached to it (at least for me).

Every now and again I see an original being offered up for auction. And then I do indeed lust.

--Pete

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Shadow,

You are quite right: if you are a student, you can get a great 50% (sometimes more) discount on training. I myself am going to an Iaido dojo tonight, to see if I can afford to study there (lessons are going to be easy, and uniform shouldn't be too hard: a Bokken and, later, an Iaito, are going to be the hard parts).

I know many, many fellow students that are doing fencing, and a few doing Kendo too: if you want to hit someone, look into them. They *can* be a little costly in equipment, but many places shall let you collect your own over time, and let you use house equipment until you have everything of your own.

All students should check what is going on nearby, and try to take full advantage of these things: you'll likely regret it if you do not ;)

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

"History".

Certainly the historical, museum quality pieces of this world fit your description, Pete. I would lust as well, and have... but I'm realistic about my financial situation and the realities of the price of Huggies. Still, I trundle through ebay every once in a while looking at the "real stuff" as well.

I'm particularily envious of Elric of Gran's cartouche ring that he wears. What is it, Elric... close to 3000 years old?

However... I would suggest that my 30+ years of love for the works of Tolkien, his stories and his ability to fire my imagination also has a "history". It was this history of my love for his books that won my admiration for some of the reproductions (or outright fabrications) of the items in the LotR movies. Particularily; Glamdring.

*shrugs* I means something to me... and in the end, that's all the justification I required.

*tips helm*

[--Pete]

Hi,

I know what you mean about " 30+ years of love for the works of Tolkien". I share it.

But, we're not talking about Tolkien here. We're talking about objects made by a company that is trying to take advantage of our love for all things Middle Earth.

There are many who make swords, reproduction or otherwise. Take for instance http://www.christianfletcher.com/ Now, would any of his offerings be more appealing and worth more money if he claimed they were related to Tolkien? Does the fact that those you linked to are reproductions of artifacts made for a movie make them somehow better. Especially, as you point out, there are many flaws either in the story, in the designs, or both.

"Value" is a very subjective thing. If a reproduction of an artifact made for a movie more or less based on a book you love is sufficient to have value in your eyes, then go for it. Assuming, of course, that the value is great enough to justify the cost. As for me, had any of those blades been given me as a gift, I probably would not display them. They would, most likely, joined the other mathoms in my closet. ;)

--Pete

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Nico,

The cartouche is of Menkheperre, so it is sometime during the reign of Thutmoses III: that puts it at roughly 1500BCE. This can vary by a fair bit, depending on when during the reign, and also on which chronology you subscribe to. I personally do not like putting our dates on their history, so 3500 years ago is close enough for my liking - best of all, even when I'm old and bent, I can still say 3500 years old ;)

If anyone wants more specifics, by more traditional chronologies, his reign is one of 1479-1425 (or 1426), or 1467-1413. All dates in BCE, of cause :) There's also a contravertial revised chronology... I think that would place it closer to 1200BCE, though I do not have a reference on that handy I could check. Anywho, it's old... it came to me on my birthday. It'sss... my preciousss ;)

[Roland]

Ask. Wherever you're buying from, ask. "Is this combat ready?" Simple as that.

A good guideline: Stainless Steel = display piece. You can tell the moment you look at a piece that it's stainless, because it has a shine that'd blind you a mile away. The amount of polishing that it would take to get Spring Steel to that same sheen is enormous, and so even a "polished" Spring Steel will be detectable from Stainless. Spring Steel = short for truck spring steel. Hard, durable, yet flexible enough to absorb shock (depending on how it was forged / made). More often than not, a spring steel weapon is combat ready. Not ALWAYS, but usually. That's why I said, ASK. And, one last metal, or type of forging: Damascus. Very durable, made from several different metals (IIRC; my sword trivia is nothing compared to, say, Rhyd's). My personal favorite. It has an acid / oil like sheen to it, a dark hue, like if you dipped metal in gasoline sitting on water, and it retained that rainbow effect. It's a very dull effect, so it doesn't shine with pretty colors. Just adds a very nice (IMHO) touch.

If you want to start collecting, I recommend C.A.S. Iberia. Most of their stuff is combat ready spring steel, and they'll almost always say that they are "fully functional". Museum Replicas is another choice, although I've heard that their "combat ready" pieces are not as durable as one might think. Other than that, just try to find a good knife store. At the malls here we have Chesapeke Knife & Tool. I use them for most of my orders, as they can order things if it's not available in the store. And, I know some people there. :) Also, if you ever can get out to King Richard's Faire, I highly recommend it. Probably one of the best places to go here on the East Coast. :)

If Japanese swords are your fancy (let's face it, they make beautiful works of art, that are also fully functional), you have two basic choices: forged, and forged & folded. Forged is basically the equivalent of Spring Steel weapons above. The process, I believe, is different than how they mass-produce other, non-Japanese swords, but the outcome is about the same: a combat ready piece. I own several (2, IIRC) forged katanas, and one forged Ninja-To (cheap piece, really, but functional; besides, Ninja-Tos aren't my thing). Now, forged & folded is made in the traditional Japanese style of "folding". This was done to remove impurities in the metal, and leaves a beautiful "waterline" called a hamon line. It's a wavy design that shows how many times the blade was "folded". Expensive pieces, but truly works of art. Generally they are part of a 3-piece set: Katana (longsword), Wakizashi (short-sword), and Tanto (dagger). The Tantos usually run $600+, Wakizashis $800+, and Katanas $1200+. Like I said, expensive, but worth the money if you're a collector (IMHO).

As for learning, I couldn't tell you. But, alot of people who work at sword / knife stores are also reenactors, I've found. So, you may be able to ask them where to find a good place to learn the arts. And, as others have said, a dojo or fencing place would be a good idea to look into, as well.

[Chaerophon]

How in the world did you come into possession of something like that and how much did it cost???? :o

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Chaerophon,

I have spent my whole life studying ancient history, and my studies have been quite focused on Ancient Egypt - in particular the New Kingdom - for about the past seven or eight years. As such, it was the prefect birthday present for me (I wasn't joking when I said it came to me on my birthday ;) ). It's only a scarab seal, rather than the ring directly off the king's finger (though, I know someone who has one of them!), so it's quite legal: it came from a legitimate antiquities store. I didn't pay for it, but I it was about AUS$1200 (if you payed in cash - more if you didn't); in a decade, it'll be worth more than that though...

[Striker]

I didn't pay for it, but I it was about AUS$1200 (if you payed in cash - more if you didn't);

Yumpin' yimminy! You wouldn't happen to have a picture of it, would you? That would be pretty cool to see.

Does this now mean we have to bow down and kiss your finger, like with the Pope? ;)

[Elric of Grans]

http://www.geocities.com/elricofgrans/scre...nshot/ring.html

(I have a couple of better photos, but not developed the film yet)

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

"Value" is a very subjective thing. If a reproduction of an artifact made for a movie more or less based on a book you love is sufficient to have value in your eyes, then go for it. Assuming, of course, that the value is great enough to justify the cost.

Agreed. An excellent point, in fact. The problem lies in that there is no way to determine Tolkien's opinion on the matter (and his is the only one that would truely settle the debate). Even his own son has released publications of his writings that would probably make J.R.R. apoplectic. Some money-grabs I tend to buy into... despite their nature. I just hope that I sufficiently use reason and intellect to battle the "gimmegimmegimme" demon of materialism that haunts me.

Then again... Tolkien's interviews suggest he was a bit schizophrenic on the nature and underlying meanings of his own publications. Nature of the beast: he wrote it, but he obviously didn't understand the message that he was obviously trying to draw attention to... obviously. In the end... it's MY book, and your's.. and his... and everyone else's that has truely fell in love with it.

But as far as the "value" of this reproduction (and a reproduction of a movie prop at that), I find my own purchase to be worth enough to me. I don't see it as a reproduction, or even a bragging piece... it's more of a personal tactile piece of memorabilia: worthless to some, treasure to others. The White Elephant makes the economy turn 'round? :)

Hey, if they used the Sword of Charlemagne in the Louvre to crown the French Kings... then surely my own reproduction can hang with happiness on my own wall. After all, the Sword has never been authenticated, has been refurbrished many times... and is still the heart of a fierce debate that a sword of that style and construction could not have possible existed in the supposed timeframe.

*pats his sword* We'll just call this my "Sword of Charlemagne". :D

[--Pete]

--Pete

[AtomicKitKat]

Whoa, 4 digits?! That's it, I'm gonna go into Smithing now!

Contact me in 10 years' time and we can talk shop. :P

[--Pete]

Hi,

A well crafted sword, made in a traditional style with traditional materials will take a few hundred hours to make. If it sells for a few thousand bucks, that's still little more than MickyDees type pay. The true craftsmen don't do it for the money (but they have to charge enough to live on), they do it for the pleasure and pride.

Now, the cheap cast or milled junk, that *is* overpriced. But that's another story.

--Pete

[Haider]

Well crafted swords, some makers (affordable!):

http://www.allstaintsblades.com - Angus Trim swords are machined, but about the best performing swords you can get (if you want to chop up some things ;)). Highly regarded for their cutting abilities.
If you want them to look nicer, simply contact htttp://www.christianfletcher.com . Christian Fletcher's upgrades are amazing.
http://www.albionarmorers.com - quite known, very well made swords, ranging from 400 $ up to 4000 $. The swords are mostly machined. Especially their Peter Johnsson (one of the best smiths) line is worth its money.
http://www.armor.com - also machined swords, but regarded as the best production swords available (at least in the US).

European made:
http://www.armourclass.com - very well made swords, especially the Baskethilts are wonderful. Also machined.
http://www.lutel.cz - very affordable and well made. Often used for German stage-combat and reenactment. Machine made.
http://www.deltin.it - also quite well made swords, good swords for starters. A bit heavy.
http://www.templ.net - incredible beautiful swords, especially the pattern-welded Viking swords, made by Patrick Bartá. All swords are completly forged and hand-made. Turnaround 18 months.
http://www.armart.antiquanova.com/ - Arm Art, very beautiful swords, all hand-made and forged. Turnaround 3-12 months.

Personally I own these swords (time for show off ;)):
Lutel Bastard sword - http://www.lancre.at/gesamt-gross.jpg
Angus Trim Single hander - http://www.countercut.com/dd1521.html
Arm Art Viking sword - http://www.armart.antiquanova.com/images/s5a_full.jpg

and ordered:
Arm Art Bronze sword - http://www.armart.antiquanova.com/images/b2_full.jpg
Templ Katzbalger - http://www.templ.net/pics/b05v.jpg


I am very happy with these well made reproductions. Sure, a real antique sword would be thousand times better, but such swords cost 10 000 € and up, and most of the kinds I am interested in most are not availiable for anyone except museums (Viking, Migration Age, Roman).

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

A warhammer?

I stumbled across a merchant site quite awhile ago with one. It was simple in its design, and was actually designed for function as opposed to appearance (rather appropriate given the nature of this brute).

I've googled myself to my wits' end, and no luck retracing myself there.

A little help?

*tips helm*

[Rhydderch Hael]

A warhammer?

I stumbled across a merchant site quite awhile ago with one.  It was simple in its design, and was actually designed for function as opposed to appearance (rather appropriate given the nature of this brute).

I've googled myself to my wits' end, and no luck retracing myself there.

A little help?

*tips helm*

Off the top o' me noggin', but Lutel makes war hammers, pole arms, and the like.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Tempered steel. Spring steel. Stainless steel. In the end, its all buzzwords.

"Tempered" steel is, simply put, steel put through a controlled heat treat proccess in order to control just how hard or soft it is going to be. Too soft, and she won't hold an edge. Too hard, it'll chip, spall, and crack like glass.

Basically, we're trying to playt against carbon steel or stainless steel—and the only key difference between them is the amount of chromium alloyed into it to smooth out the grain structure. Stainless steel has a large amount of chromium, used to give it that—well—chromelike finish to the metal. Trouble is, chromium also tends to cause heat to redistribute evenly through a blade, making such tricks as differential heat-treating (and attempt to get a relatively soft blade core while the blade edges are harder) rather difficult. Grains in stainless are different, too.

That is not to say that chromium is the work of the devil. Angus "Gus" Trim, a rather reputable name in the production sword business, opts for a carbon steel with a rather noticeable chromium content (though not enough to actually be called "stainless", a Gus Trim blade will still stain and patina) to smooth out the grain structure in a finished blade.

As to "floppy" swords, it's either a trick of the camera, or the tacit understanding that some (most) blades do have a springlike quality. "Flopping" around keeps the stress of a hit from cracking a blade, and many sword forms of European heritage are essentially sharpened, straight springs.