$315 USD... for a broken sword.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

As much as I eagerly plopped down dollars for the released Glamdring sword, it was as much the history and background of the blade from the books as it was its successful translation on the screen that won me over.

With these, however... I'm finding my interest waning from "sellout" to "ho-hum" rapidly.

The Shards of Narsil
-considering you could buy the sword WHOLE for the same price... I'm having a hard time figuring out their marketing strategy, here. Call me "simple", but I don't buy into the esthetic. :huh:

Strider's Ranger Sword
- a complete film creation. Considering that Strider was supposed to be swinging Narsil (renamed "Anduril") from the get-go (or at least from the point of leaving Rivendell... this blade is a complete film falsification and departure from Tolkien's "holy writ". That being said... I have to admit that this blade is by far the most attractive of the bunch, after Glamdring. I enjoy its simple lines and lack of ... er... "glitz". Also, that mounting plaque just hits a homerun with me. :)

Hadhafang - Sword of Arwen
- also Elrond's sword during the Last Alliance... along with this fabrication that it belonged to Idril, daughter of Turgon (who owned Glamdring originally). I held this one in my hand yesterday. Different. I'd hoped to fall in love with it, but it wasn't meant to be. The handle is akin to Sting's design, which is supposedly "elven". Considering that Glamdring was an Elven-king's blade; that doesn't hold water. Another discrepancy I have a problem with is the blade's obvious scimitar influence... when Tolkien usually attributed scimitars and curved blades to the "wicked throngs of the Dark Lord". Unless, of course, you're idea of a scimitar is closer to a machete *points*. Yet another construction completely from the movie. Idril never was a warrior... and Arwen (or is that XENArwen) wasn't either. When Elrond brandished a sword as the Herald of Gil-Galad, it would have been closer in kind to Glamdring, methinks. I even knew its name at one point... *rummages through books*.

By the way: Hey Elric, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think their translation of Hadhafang is a tad "off". The best I could come up with in my researches was "Hadhol" and "-fang". Two Sindarin words that would translate directly to "Dwarf-beard". That would indicate a whole other situation, now wouldn't it. :blink:

Ah well.

Maybe they'll release Legolas' Bow of Galadriel with the last movie. That one will be on my wall, I guarantee it. Either that or Aeglos, the Spear of Gil-Galad... I'd pay money for that.

*tips helm*

[WarBlade]

Unless, of course, you're idea of a scimitar is closer to a machete *points*.  Yet another construction completely from the movie.

Scimitar??? :huh: Hmm, I hadn't been paying attention to the terminology that they'd been applying to the weapons. Those orc blades look to me to be a fair effort in fusing the idea of a falchion with that of a meat cleaver and suited the Uruk-hai very well IMO. They could have called it a "cleaver".

As for Arwen's sword, I have no idea what I'd call that one. Even "katana" springs to mind although that would be inaccurate too methinks.

[Occhidiangela]

Mameluke? Mayhap a two-handed Mameluke sword?

Like this one? Mameluke Sword circa 1831

Or this one Other Mameluke Saber

Add a bit of length, add a fancy handle, and maybe you are there. Or maybe they envisioned a Weta Workshops hybrid Mameluke/Katana. :D

The U.S. Marine's officer's dress sword is curved, per a saber or scimitar, and is called a Mameluke after the fashion of a sword presented to Presley O'Bannon after his raid on Derna, 1805ish. About Presley O'Bannon

Marine NCO's use a cavalry saber, and there is a nice little bit of trivia that goes with that.

USMC NCO Sword Trivia

The Mamelukes (Mamluk's in another spelling) were cavalry of the Ottoman Empire, IIRC, or perhaps 'an Egyptian military caste in the sultanate from the 1200's to the 1500's.' For some reason, I recall their having also been Eunuchs, but that may be an error.

From Short and Sweet Mameluke

MAMELUKE SULTANS OF EGYPT
(AD 1252 - 1811)
The Sultanate of Egypt was seized from the Ayyubids by the Mameluke slave-soldier Aybak. The Abbasids still held the title of caliph and held court at Cairo, but were puppets of the Mamelukes, who were descended from Turkish tribes who invaded the Middle East in two major waves in the 11th and 12th centuries.

They might have looked like this . . . when Napoleon dropped by and made a hash of them near the Pyramids.

Mameluke Action Fig

I had thought that George R. R. Martin had copied the Mameluke idea with the mercs the dragon princess (Game of Thrones series) got her hands on to in the second or third book.

Sorry, I went Tag Happy. :)

[Roland]

http://www.casiberia.com/cas_website/produ....asp?id=1011-GT

It's a Chinese blade, not a Japanese one. Similar to a Katana crossed with a Scimitar, but a bit more elegant, IMHO, than any Scimitar could claim to be.

Also, another similar blade:
http://www.casiberia.com/cas_website/produ....asp?id=2064-GT

And perhaps even closer to that depicted in the movie:
http://www.casiberia.com/cas_website/produ....asp?id=2074-GT

:) Ain't it great being a sword collector? Truthfully, I have no Tolkien blades. I despise all "display" pieces as inferior and an insult to the swordsman's art. But, being a Tolkien fan, I'm willing to make an exception with these. I still hate display pieces, and am not fond of these by much more than any other display piece, but I can honestly say that I have considered buying them. If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna get them all. All or nothing, that's how it is with me. :) However, not yet. Not anytime soon. I need my Godfred sword first. Oh, how I love THAT blade.

http://www.casiberia.com/cas_website/produ....asp?id=1010-GT
Best European blade I've ever wielded. Brings out the Viking blood in me (I'm part Norwegian). God bless that blade, for it is truly something. Though I'd kill to have a blade crafted in the old ways by a true blacksmith, this is probably as close as I'm going to get until I can 1) track down said smith, and 2) afford the blade. ;)

Someday. :) That's the next blade on my long list, and I will have it. :)

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Nico,

Already given you a translation elsewhere, but in case anyone here is interested... The name is clearly Sindarin (the `dh' sound is not found in Quenya), so I do not speak a word of it, but it can be derived from two other names: Hadhodrond (Khazad-duum) and Fangorn. Your translation is quite correct! I have serious doubts we know `throng' or `to cleave' in the Sindar tongue.

[--Pete]

Hi,

While I would love to have some authentic swords from a few periods and a few places, I cannot see buying even decent replicas. And spending that kind of money for something that has no real historical value? Well, I just can't see it. If I want "swords" on my walls, I'll put the various sabers, epees, and foils I've competed with over the years. At least they're "real" and definitely functional.

--Pete

[Rhydderch Hael]

There are some smiths out there, modern masters of the old craft, that do go for faithful reproductions of old swords. From the proccess of researching actual museum pieces, recodring measurements, and going forth with a commission in forging and finishing a blade.

Problem is, the highest echelons of swords newly reproduced (and fuctional) in this manner do get into 4-digit prices... :(

Comes to the point that, while you're perfectly capable of hacking limbs and waging battle with such a replica, you'd really try avoiding doing so lest you nick the edge...

I try to stay away from such an apex in the price curve. A reasonable production sword (cut from a CNC machine and then finished by hand) will start in the low 300-dollar range and go up from there. At least then you're not going to terribly depreciate the value of the sword if you actually do some cutting practice with it.

[Artega]

Hi,

While I would love to have some authentic swords from a few periods and a few places, I cannot see buying even decent replicas.  And spending that kind of money for something that has no real historical value?  Well, I just can't see it.  If I want "swords" on my walls, I'll put the various sabers, epees, and foils I've competed with over the years.  At least they're "real" and definitely functional.

--Pete

My sentiments exactly, Pete. I'd rather have a standard historically accurate and well-smithed long sword than some aluminum replica used in movies. A good place to go is www.swordforum.com. I got the URL from an old Garwulf's Corner, and Sword Forum has a listing of two or three sword-makers that apparently smith them instead of casting them in a mold like mass-production factories do. They're a tad expensive, though, with the cheapest I've seen being around $350. However, they're all tested and approved, and Garwulf himself has bought a few swords from said makers, at least, according to his editorials. It's as good a place as any to start.

[WarBlade]

I'd rather have a standard historically accurate and well-smithed long sword than some aluminum replica used in movies.

These replicas are stainless steel, not aluminium. Weight-wise they are similar to the real deal. They won't hold much of an edge though and probably aren't designed with impact resistance in mind either.

Swords used in movies usually range from a polymer stunt sword (rigid version of the stuff that forms wetsuits) to aluminium. LOTR also used spring steel weapons.

[Roland]

I always forget that one. Should make it easier for me to find a good smith when I some day get a job, and can afford more high-quality craftsmanship.

For now, places like C.A.S.Iberia and the like do me just fine. I'm not too fond of Museum Replicas, from what I've heard, but I may give a few of their pieces a shot. Time will tell.

[Rhydderch Hael]

...  I got the URL from an old Garwulf's Corner, and Sword Forum has a listing of two or three sword-makers that apparently smith them instead of casting them in a mold like mass-production factories do.  They're a tad expensive, though, with the cheapest I've seen being around $350.  However, they're all tested and approved, and Garwulf himself has bought a few swords from said makers, at least, according to his editorials.  It's as good a place as any to start.

Ummm, stainless steel wallhangers are not cast. Merely milled and machined to aesthetic considerations and often constructed only for visual display instead of actual cutting practice. That, and the heat treat. Heat treating can make or break (often in a literal sense) a sword. The material at hand becomes less a factor in determing a sword when the care in heat treatment is the primary concern in sword quality, as you can forge a sword out of the cleanest, most kick-ass grade of carbon steel and have a crappy blade in the end if the heat treat was screwed up.

[Albion Child]

I think that "Blade" would be more than adequate for Arwen's sword. However I think the most accurate description would be To said "toe" as the blade is straight, remains the same width for the length of the blade, and has one cutting edge. (Correct me if her blade in the movie doesn't match this description, I don't have a copy and I am going by memory.)

As for Aragorn's sword, he did not carry Narsil "from the beginning" nope, he has a diferent one.

I also believe that what Tolkien meant by the orc's curved blades, is flamme style. (To relate to D2 see: Kris and Flamberge) not curved as in scimitar, Katana, Wakizashi, Tanto, or Shamshir.

Also, on a different note, is there a reason given in the book for why Sting doesn't glow in the presence of the Urak Hai (in the movie) or did someone just screw up?

[Albion Child]

The material at hand becomes less a factor in determing a sword when the care in heat treatment is the primary concern in sword quality, as you can forge a sword out of the cleanest, most kick-ass grade of carbon steel and have a crappy blade in the end if the heat treat was screwed up. 
Post Settings

Actually it is very easy(comparitiely) to make a blade from spring steal that will not break or chip easily.

Also, wallhanger swords are not milled or machined. This process is much more expensive than casting would be. They are definitely cast....from powdered metal. If you've ever broken one this would be incredibly obvious. (Yes I busted my first sword trying to chop up a stump.)

I think you may have been confusing the terms "cast" and "forged."

With few technical words (mainly because I don't know any) casting takes powdered metal, puts it in a mold, heats the hell out of it so it fuses together, and voila!

Forging takes a basically flat piece of metal, heats it to near melting, pound into shape with big hamma and anvil.

Machining (Milling), well, you would need a very large, expensive chink of metal which a machine would basically carve into shape....

No way wall hanger swords are machined, for the same reason compound bows with machine risers cost double what those with cast risers do.

[Roland]

Or did you miss the part where Aragorn lets him run away, right before his big fight with them at the end of the movie? It's how he knew they were coming, and told Frodo to run.

[Rhydderch Hael]

...Machining (Milling), well, you would need a very large, expensive chink of metal which a machine would basically carve into shape....

No way wall hanger swords are machined,  for the same reason compound bows with machine risers cost double  what those with cast risers do.

Obviously spoken from someone who has never seen a sword blank or heard of stock-removal processes.

Only a qualified, card-carrying idiot would grind down a sword from a block of stainless. Get a pressed sheet, cut the basic sword shape, then grind in the edges and finish out the profile, and voila, a craptacular and cheap stainless steel sword.

Pure stock removal (as oppossed to forging or using Swedish powdered) doesn't count into fuel costs, after all.

And a bad heat treat isn't about chipping or breaking the blade, but determining if the thing will take or hold an edge. A sword whose edge folds or dulls out after a few cuts is one for the reject pile.

[Copadope]

I currently don't know much about swords, but I'm quite interested in them. I plan to own at least one someday, and hopefully learn how to wield it properly. Of course being a college student greatly restricts the financial possibility of this happening anytime soon...

I'm curious about the material used to create swords. I'm assuming that medieval swords were traditionally made with tempered steel. But like you said, now they're made with stainless steel and spring steel, although it sounds like these are just made for looks(?) And what exactly is spring steel? The term itself reminds me of swords that I've seen in alot of Asian martial arts movies, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon where the swords appear to be kinda floppy. Did people actually use floppy swords like that?

Personally, I think European swords are way cooler anyway :P .

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

As for Aragorn's sword, he did not carry Narsil "from the beginning" nope, he has a diferent one.

*points*

...But I am Aragorn, and those verses go with that name.'  He drew out his sword, and they saw that the blade was indeed broken a foot below the hilt.  'Not much use is it, Sam?' said Strider.  'But the time is near when it shall be forged anew'.  -- Fellowship of the Ring, "Strider", circa page 188

Don't try to second guess my Tolkien trivia, boy. I don't like having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

[--Pete]

. . . to specify which one you mean.

Hi,

As for Aragorn's sword, he did not carry Narsil "from the beginning" nope, he has a diferent one.

In the movie or in the book? In the movie, Aragorn is carrying some sword that is not broken when he meets Frodo's group. In the book, Aragorn is carrying the shards of Narsil when he first meets Frodo in the Prancing Pony. He draws the sword as proof of who he is after he finds out that Bilbo's verse about him was in the letter that Gandalf had left with Butterbur for Frodo. He makes some comment to Sam along the lines of "Not much use. But the time when it will be forged anew is near."

I, for one, prefer the movie version in this case. A person who spends his life in danger and traveling through the wild has little need for the weight and encumbrance of a broken sword and every need for a working weapon. It would make more sense to have left Narsil at Rivendell with the other heirlooms of the house of Isildur. Both having Aragorn carrying the shards and the very concept of "reforging" a sword blade show Tolkien's romanticism and total lack of technical knowledge. But, hey, it is still a great book.

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

Bulk manufacture of steel is very much a product of the 19th century and later. The materials available to sword makers earlier than that were nowhere near as consistent or controlled. The ability to melt iron did not even exist. Which is why no uniform material could be made. All that early ironworkers could do was heat the metal up enough to work it and to introduce or remove some impurities by diffusion. A lot of the properties of the iron available at the time was determined by impurities present in the ore used to make the iron. The addition of controlled impurities to generate desirable properties is a very modern (i.e., post swords as weapons) technology.

So, the materials, the techniques, and the results varied a lot from region to region and age to age. There are relatively good descriptions of some of this in http://www.vikingsword.com/index1.html and http://www.howstuffworks.com/sword-making.htm

As to learning how to use a sword, I'd suggest finding a fencing club. While fencing is not "sword fighting", you will at least probably learn something right. Almost all the sword fighting I've seen in the movies, on TV, at exhibitions, at SCA meets, and on the web is either conjecture, BS, or (most often) both. Finding someone that knows the authentic techniques is rare. As much as they can be known, that is, since most were never written down. People overlook the fact that the monks were just about the only literate people of much of the period. The monks could write and knew little of arms, the warriors knew what there was to know of arms but couldn't write. Thus, we have a scarcity of knowledge from when swords were weapons of war. The situation is a lot better with Oriental martial techniques, probably because the population as a whole was more literate and the monks were often warriors themselves.

--Pete

[ShadowHM]

I plan to own at least one someday, and hopefully learn how to wield it properly.  Of course being a college student greatly restricts the financial possibility of this happening anytime soon...

I would think you are in the best possible postition right now to learn to use one.

Most universities have a variety of clubs including fencing and kendo.

Both are fairly cheap at the entry level for equipment and fees.