Which is better?

[Albion Child]

After seeing a post about a Ethereal Hellslayer, I am curious....

Which would do more damage?

An ethereal weapon (Grandfather, Hellslayer, Messerschmidts Reaver, Cranium Basher etc.) or the same weapon with an Ohm rune?

[Obi2Kenobi]

I was just about to post this, only it would be how much defense does ethereal add % wise, and how much damage. :) So I would know if it is really better to get an ethereal valor with zod vs. a non-ethereal with the defense rune/jewel. I for one would like the non-ethereal to put something besides zod in it. :)

[Archon_Wing]

The etheral one. I'll explain when I regain conciousness

[FenrisWulf]

I'll follow up where Archon Wing left off. The Ethereal one is guaranteed to add an approximately equal or greater amount of damage. Why? Because, roughly, being Ethereal adds 50% to the base damage of the weapon, while the Ohm adds 50% damage based on the base damage of the weapon. Thus, in the case that there is no existing +% ED Mod, then the damages will be the same (or slightly different; I forgot whether Ethereal does the 1-1 thing). However, if there is any +% ED, the Ethereal bonus will be applied before this (meaning it will be boosted by the existing +% ED), while the Ohm bonus will be applied at the same time as the existing +% ED.

ie, ethereal >= Ohm.

Let me know if that makes sense, and if I screwed anything up along the way.

[Nebuul]

Weapon 100 damage, +100% damage, Ohm Rune = 250 damage.

Weapon 100 damage, +100% damage, ethereal = 300 damage.


Any questions?

[ldw]

To clarify the above ethereal property would boost base dmg by 50%

100 becomes 150 .. add 100% dmg -> 300

[Dixen Andomiel]

Base Damage Weapon 10-50, with Ethereal would become 15-75? Which would be Equal to the Ohm Rune... and then Enhanced Damage % is applied above that...??

If my math is right... w00t!

[Albion Child]

I'm not sure if this is correct. I'm just posting to see if I screwed up.


(note; I assume the minimum damage is calculated totaly independant of max damage. )



[(base damage + 50% base damage) + bonus to max or min damage] x ED/100


or is the max/min damage bonus applied first?

also, I use ed/100 instead of ED% because it makes math easier for me... <_<

[Logic_X]

Ethereal = [(Base+magic bonus)*1.5]*(%ed modifiers +1) + (+dmg modifiers)

Magic Bonus = 0 if weapon is not magical.
Magic Bonus = 1 if weapon is magical/unique/etc.

1.5 is from the 50% effecting base weapon damage from ethereal.

%ed modifiers encompases all listed enhance damage modifiers on weapon (IE Cruel, Ohm, etc.)

+dmg modifiers is all +min, +max, and "Adds x-y damage" modifiers.

Compare it to an ohm'd formula:

Ohm'd: [(Base + magic bonus)*1]*(%ed modifiers +1 + .5) + (+dmg modifiers)

If you want a run down:
99-199 base damage weapon (easy #s to work with even though there is no existing item with this base damage)
Magical (cruel - 300%, evisceration +50 max) (Just putting +50 max as an example...couldn't remember if it was butchery or evisc)

Ethereal = [(99+1)*(1.5)]*(3.0+1)+(0) = 600
Ethereal = [(199+1)*(1.5)]*(3.0+1)+(50) = 1250


Ohm = [(99+1)*(1)]*(3.0+1+.5)+(0) = 450
Ohm = [(199+1)*(1)]*(3.0+1+.5)+(50) = 950

If you want to calculate the entire thing out (including final damage) here's first an explanation of parts of the formula followed by the actual formula (these don't include where the program cuts off the decimals - ie truncheation or however you spell it - basically always rounding down.....this formula will give you a general idea of your damage without a lot of decimal work, just round down any time a multiplication/division results in them):

Weapon Damage:
The damage displayed on the actual weapon - reachable through the following formula:
Weapon Minimum Damage = ([Base Minimum Damage + Magic bonus]*ethereal modifier) * (1+ %enhanced damage) + (+Minimum damage)
Weapon Maximum Damage = ([Base Maximum Damage + Magic Bonus]*ethereal modifier)*(1+ %enhanced damage) + (+Maximum damage)

Terms -
Base Minimum/Maximum Damage: The Damage of the weapon type (IE Thunder Maul, Phase blade, etc.).
Magic Bonus: The bonus from item being magical or not (+1 if magical, +0 if non-magical)
Ethereal Modifier: Modifier from item being ethereal or not (1.5 if ethereal, 1.0 if not ethereal)
%enhanced damage: decimal of the % enhanced damage (IE 300% = 3.0, 250% = 2.5)
+Minimum/Maximum damage: self explanetory (integer improvements to damage)

To determine final damage:
Final damage = [(Weapon Min|Max damage) + (+ Min|Max from non-weapon sources)] * (Stat modifier + %ed from non-weapons + 1) * Special modifier

Weapon Min|Max damage is what you determined above this.
+Min|Max from non-weapon sources: The +Min|Max from charms, boots, armor, gloves, etc.
Stat modifier: Determined by your weapon choice (I don't remember them atm, so I won't list them in case of error....they're pretty straight forward with non-class specific items though....)
%ed from non-weapons: %ed from skills, armor, gloves, boots, etc. (everything except weapons) in decimal form (IE 300% = 3.0, 250% = 2.5).
Special modifier:
Critical Strike/deadly strike = 2
normal hit = 1
Multishot = .75

Multishot is also multiplied against your elemental damage where as the other 2 are not. (+elemental damage is added on after everything else).

I hope this helps in some way.

(someone will probably come along and list the weapon modifiiers....I don't feel like looking up the weird ones atm.......basically melee modifiers = strength/100, bow modifiers = dexterity/100 - with the exceptions being mauls, class specific weapons, and throwing weapons.)

Also remember:
Axes have hidden 150% ed to demons modifier.
Similar to Maces visible 150% ed to undead modifier.
Someone else can explain how these are worked in if they want though.

Peace,
Logic_X

[Roland]

Also remember:
Axes have hidden 150% ed to demons modifier.
Similar to Maces visible 150% ed to undead modifier.

...this was a myth. Maybe I'm wrong, but i'm almost positive that that little tidbit is just an old wive's tale, much the same as the Diablo Cow Level. Many insist on its existence, but in reality it just isn't there.

Someone correct me if I am wrong (although I'll be quite surprised if I am).

[FoxBat]

There is, or was, some indication of there being this demon bonus on axes in one of the .txt files. However, the game code makes no use of it. Probably a planned feature that was never implemented. So yes, there is no damage vs. demons bonus on axes. It's not nearly as bad a tale as the D1 Cow Level though. :P

[Ruvanal]

Ethereal = [(Base+magic bonus)*1.5]*(%ed modifiers +1) + (+dmg modifiers)

Magic Bonus = 0 if weapon is not magical.
Magic Bonus = 1 if weapon is magical/unique/etc.

1.5 is from the 50% effecting base weapon damage from ethereal.

%ed modifiers encompases all listed enhance damage modifiers on weapon (IE Cruel, Ohm, etc.)

+dmg modifiers is all +min, +max, and "Adds x-y damage" modifiers.

The etheral bonus is applied to the base before the "+1 to base" that is applied to the weapons damage if there is enhanced damage on the weapon itself, not in sockets. Enhanced damage gained from items in sockets will be using the base damage (ethereal modifier does apply) without an "+1 to base" and each socketed items bonus to the total is calulated seperately before being added to the weapons total.

See here for more information.
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...ethereal+damage

[Brista]

There is, or was, some indication of there being this demon bonus on axes in one of the .txt files.&nbsp; However, the game code makes no use of it.&nbsp; Probably a planned feature that was never implemented.

I think it was mentioned in the manual for the expansion