So what did you think of the new album?

[[wcip]Angel]

It's been well received by the media and by some of the hardcore fans as one of the more "back to basics"-album in Metallica history.

I just downloaded the thing, and I have to say I'm not impressed. Every song remind me of the other. If someone asked me to sing the tune of one of them, I wouldn't have any idea on how to start. It is my belief that, although Metallica didn't "sell out" when releasing the Black album, they certainly sold out with this.

Yes, it's heavy metal, but I don't think this album would've existed had it not been for the luke-warm reception of both Load and Reload which were regarded as pop-music by most of the Metallic fanbase. It seems like Metallica are trying to prove that "we're still cool. We're still Heavy Metal-artists." With load and Reload (as well as S&M), events such as the Napster-thing and James' addiction, I believe that most hardcore fans have lost interest in the band, due to their "going soft", and that St. Anger is irrefutable proof that this is not the case. To me, this is where they sold out!

I remember in an interview I saw, that one of the Metallica-boys said something like
"We're not making music for the fans, we do this for us." (I think it was James come to think of it)

This is in complete contrast to my theory. They didn't write St. Anger for themselves, but for the hardcore fans who have lost interest. All these things about anger and stuff from the childhood is just a smokescreen put on my Metallica in order to justify their "angry" tone in the album.

I'm going to listen to all the songs, as I owe them that much, and then I'm going to delete all the ones which sound like they're trying to prove something.

(I should mention that I'm not what I regard as a hardcore-fan - a person who went through the 80s with Metallica. The first song I ever heard was No leaf clover, so you can imagine how long I've been a fan. I should also mention that although S&M was the thing that got me hooked on Metallica, I now own all the records, save Garage and this new album, as well as Live #$%&: Binge and purge and love them very much.)

What's your take? Did you like the new album?

PS Thank God for Dream Theater, I can't wait to get back to it

[d2u]

I've listened to all the songs now and I agree with you, they all sound the same. And what's up with James' rapping? he's singing like some limp bizkit reject. The lyrics are repetitive and so are the guitar riffs, I'm dissapointed.

1/6 :angry:

[Feryar]

I'm going to the Roskilde festival, and I really hope they play their first 3 albums rather than their last 3 :)

[Roland]

I refused to buy the album as soon as I saw this:

. . .

Ok,so the updated the site. :P Anyway, it was a picture of them against some building. They were dressed like a bunch of rap thugs. I swore off Metallica when I saw that. It made me physically ill.

I AM a hardcore fan. I have been listening to them for over a decade. I grew up with them on TV, watching their videos on MTV and occasionally hearing bits on the radio. I've always loved them, but it took me until Load came out to remember it. For a number of years, I was beyond musically challenged. I was musically barren. I started in with a lot of stuff, mostly crap that I don't like anymore (and almost regret ever liking; DMB, anyone? :P). Then came Load, and it changed me for life. It brought me crashing back to those 80's days of my youth, and it woke something up in me that hadn't been alive for years. It woke up my metal-head nature, something I had forgotten, completely LOST, for far too long.

I have all their albums, save for Live #$%&: Binge and Purge. Someday I will get that. ;) I'm debating with myself on getting this latest one. On the one hand, I'm not too big a fan anymore. They have truly gone down the tubes, and while Load was still good, ReLoad marked a clear descent. S&M was incredible, but still not true-to-the-roots. Unlike Megadeth, Metallica has just kept on descending. Risk (Megadeth) was a step towards the downward spiral for Megadeth, and it shook me up. I thought all my music was gonna die out before I had even reached the legal drinking age. Then came The World Needs A Hero, and it brought me crashing back. True-to-the-roots Megadeth metal, in all its guts and glory. That's what Metallica needs, and it's something they'll never be able to pull off. Hetfield isn't an angry teen anymore, and if he's trying to be, he's wasting his time and ours. He's still one pissed off guy; that will never leave him. But he's married, he's a father, and he's in his 30's. You can't be an angry, rebellious teen anymore. You can be angry, and rebellious (although he's almost anything but; there's a few bits and pieces, but for the most part, they've all gone mainstream), but you can't ever capture that old fire.

Seeing them dressed as common thugs for a new rap album literally made me physically ill. I almost vomited on my monitor, and indeed almost had to make a dash for the bathroom. You say the album is at least still metal. That's more than I thought it would be. So, maybe there's still hope. Maybe it will be worth my money. But the bigger picture? Is this an a band I want to continue to support? I don't know. Right now, I don't think so, but I just don't know.

I love metal. I love my music. It's my life, and I'm one to take the music where I find it, ALMOST regardless of who it's by. But this... this is pushing my limits. For now, I'm going to hold off. There's lots more albums I could get instead, from loads of other bands, before I dare venture down those dark waters. Metallica, as they once were, is forever dead. Whether their new incarnation is worth it to me, I haven't come to a conclusion yet. And I've been debating for years.

Thanks for the heads up, though. I'll keep an eye out for it, and would appreciate your feedback.

[WarBlade]

Angel,Jun 6 2003, 01:04 AM] I just downloaded the thing, and I have to say I'm not impressed.

<_<

Every song remind me of the other.

The same could argued of the Justice album and Load gave me the same impression again . . .

[WarBlade]

Unlike Megadeth, Metallica has just kept on descending. Risk (Megadeth) was a step towards the downward spiral for Megadeth, and it shook me up.

Risk??? :blink:
Err, they totally lost it back in '94 with Youthanasia. Some people I've known over the years claim the previous album Countdown to Extinction was the death knell.

[Swarmalicious]

Metallica hasn't dropped anything worth the gun powder to blow it to hell since 'Justice'.

I will turn 29 in a month, so it might be time to slap on the "old fart" name tag... or they could actually completely suck, I can't be sure.
Being a 'metal-head' was a real important part of my identity 15 years ago, and watching one of the staples of that rebelious identity become about as hardcore and real as a cherry flavored fruit roll-up has precipitated my own mid-life self analysis (which I assume happens to everyone anyway). I own, and still occasionally rock out to Metallica's first 4 albums - when my girlfriend, who never listened to them, sees them on Mtv nowadays and gives me a teasing smirk or eye-roll, all I can say in my defense is:
"You don't understand, they used to be awesome."

I blame Bob Rock (his very name is sold out and retarded) and perhaps some nervousness on Metallica's part when Nirvana & Pearl Jam hit the scene. Like me, as they got older they started questioning the identity they developed in high school.

[[wcip]Angel]

I just downloaded the thing, and I have to say I'm not impressed.

<_<

What does that mean?

[WarBlade]

Did you pay for it? :huh:

[[wcip]Angel]

No, not yet. I was planning on standing in line on the first
day of release till I started hearing how heavy it was
going to be. Then I figured I'd listen to the album
before I actually pay for it; and I'm glad I did. There is
no way I'm paying for something I won't enjoy.


I realise that piracy is a bit of a "no-no" in the states as
well as some places in Europe, but there have been
extensive studies on the subject here in Europe and it
shows that (especially in Norway) piracy actually
increases the sales of music.

It is also supported by my own personal relationship to
music. It was piracy which got me hooked on Metallica
(whose CDs I now own almost all of) and it was piracy
which got me hooked on Dream Theater (which I just
started buying records of. My first purchase was the
Scenes from New York DVD, then the Scenes from New
York triple album, and last time I went to the store, I
picked up 4 of the older albums, including Scenes from
a memory.) It is my firm belief that I would have never
gotten into rock, and my overwhelming love for music
would not have existed had it not been for piracy.
Without it, I'd still be listening to the Lion King
soundtrack.

[protoshoggoth]

Ah, back in the days...the days of Megaforce and Shrapnel Records, Mr. Varney, Exciter, Raven and Metallica.

It was an amazing thing when Kill 'em All came out. I had been a metal fan for a few years, but there had never been anything quite like that. It was amazing. I was in college at the time, and a friend of mine who ran a weekly late night metal show on our college radio station had gotten a promo copy. He walked into my dorm room and simply said "you have to hear this". He was right. I still have my vinyl Megaforce copy.

That being said, everything fades over time. I suppose because I came to them so early, I lost interest pretty early too. While Ride the Lightning was as good as the first album, and some tracks even better in my opinion, the opening track (fight fire with fire) pointed the way to the future, and it wasn't one with which I was terribly pleased. Master of Puppets was the last Metallica album I bought (and no, I don't download). What can I say, I'm difficult. :)

I have high hopes for the new(ish) Tank album I just ordered, Still at War. If it's anything like This Means War or Honour and Blood, I won't be disappointed.

[[wcip]Angel]

Funny.

"Master of puppets" is frequently heralded among the fans as the Metallica-album. What made you lose interest?

I personally think "Ride the lightning" is the better album, mostly due to the fact that three of the songs on the album are on my "top 5 Metallica songs of all time" (Bells, Fade, Ktulu)

So you lost interest early on. I suppose you haven't spent any time with S&M? Many of the hardcore fans see it as a sign of the ultimate low of Metallica's career, but to me it's a work of art. Michael Kamen earned my respect and love for what he did to some of the best rock songs in history!

[Roland]

Youthinasia is one of my favorite albums! Right up there with Countdown to Extinction! BAH! I am ignoring you now. Good day. :P

[[wcip]Angel]

Did you pay for it? :huh:

http://www.itavisen.no/art/1301148.html
It's a Norwegian article, but I will attempt a translation:


"Downloaders buy the most music

The record industry is wrong

Monday 12th of May 2003 04.05 am

Those who download music of the Internet are also the
people who buy the most records. This is shown by a
new survey by Nielsen
Nielsen/NetRatings have asked frequent users of P2P-
filesharing programs about their purchase habits. The
answers were quite surprising, and should prove to be
good news for the music industry which more more
complains how piracy affects sales.

According to the survey (acrobat-format), filesharers
are 111% more willing to purchase the music than the
average Internet-user.

People who do this are also the ones who spend
most money in the record stores."


Here is the report:
http://www.nielsen-netratings.com/pr/pr_030508.pdf

An excerpt:
"Nielsen//NetRatings reports that nearly 31 million
active Internet users, or 22 percent of the active
Internet population ages 18 years and up, downloaded
music in the past 30 days and 71 percent of this
audience purchased music in the past three months."

[Feryar]

funny you brought that link up, we actually used that article as a source for part of a project me and two others did at school only 3-4 weeks ago :)

I think it's true though, I never buy anything before I've listened to it. Earlier I had to do that in the store, but now I can do it at home. That means I listen to more music which again means that I find more music I like. That makes me buy more CDs.

IMO they need to stop fighting it and start using it to their own advantage, something we also concluded with in our project. Taking advantage of the mechanisms of networks could probably make them sell even more CDs, but if they want to be backwards I guess they have their right to be it. They are fighting battle they will probably never win though.

[WarBlade]

Countdown to Extinction is a good album actually. Even in my often scathing opinion. I was even given a high quality poster of Vic playing with his abacus. :P

Youthanasia . . . um . . . This was Megadeth's first album-wide foray into the realms of detuning their instruments for that old (has been) Motley Crue sound of the mid-late eighties. I forget if it was a semi tone or a whole tone they took it down on that album, but the results are often pretty ugly for the bands that try it. On top of that, the move away from the very technical, high precision riffing Megadeth used to do, to head into those monotonous 4/4, two notes per beat, bass rythyms kinda smacked them them right off my play list in a great hurry. :P I managed to bite the bullet and pick up Cryptic Writings a while later, but sadly the Rust in Peace and Countdown to Extinction days appeared to be gone for good. Peace Sells and Killing is my Business are another couple of CDs I'll put on from time to time. :D

Almost forgot. If you want something with vastly more brutal vomit inducing material for imagery than Metallica doing a gangsta boy impersonation, just open up Youthanasia and look at the Megadeth band photo printed on the CD.

And to think the first time I heard that album was in the control room of a 24 track semi-pro recording studio. :( Ah well. I got it purged in my own special way . . . Think Clawfinger's "Do What I Say" played at around threshold shift inducing volume in one of the highest quality recording studio control rooms in the country. :D Followed up Queensryche's "Real World" :blink: (Damn that James Barton knows how to mix a huge sound! ) :blink: and a few other treats. :D

[protoshoggoth]

"Master of puppets" is frequently heralded among the fans as the Metallica-album. What made you lose interest?

I'd have to listen to it again to really say. I haven't listened to it since the year it came out, what, 15 years ago? It wasn't really *bad*, but nothing on it really seemed to work to the degree that, say, For Whom The Bell Tolls did on Ride the Lightning. I suppose the fact that it was intended to have a 'message' (viz: album cover) didn't help much either. I don't need a bunch of bay area bangers telling me how to think. :)

Of course, there was so much other metal at the time that I liked better, that may have had something to do with it. Tank, Exciter, Manilla Road, Mercyful Fate, Raven, things like that.

I'm suprised to hear that MOP is considered "the album" by the afficionados. I get the impression (this is from reading around a bit today, I'd never heard that notion before) that people think this is when they 'got serious' or something. That puzzles me. It's not like the earlier albums were what I would call speed metal or thrash (the excrable Fight Fire with Fire on RTL excepted) but that seems to be what the first two albums are considered today. Odd. I consider Pantera and (back in the day) Slayer to be speed/thrash, and I don't see that there's much in common between their stuff and, say, Metal Militia on Kill 'em All.

But whatever...I'm content to be an old, geezery voice in the wilderness on this matter. Nowadays, of course, I mainly find it amusing that this bunch of millionaires are trying to position themselves as champs of Youth Anger.

Dang I hope Still At War gets here soon.

[channel1]

That Nielsen survey looks like a complete piece of bull stuff.

Right off the top, they say that they are "... the global standard for Internet audience measurement and analysis...". I seriously doubt that there is ANY standard for that at this time. They are probably Standards in their own Mind.

That aside, they ARE Nielsen, and the corporate guys will think of them when they want a survey. But, where does this survey data come from?

I suspect that the only reasonable way for Nielsen to acquire anything close to valid data would be with "spyware". Since Kazaa is the most popular peer to peer software for online music distribution, and the full version is heavy on spyware, it would seem likely that Nielsen is one of the companies that support Kazaa in order to acquire data.

What a concept.

Step 1: Record company brings out New Release.
Step 2: Nielsen makes software like Kazaa available, which permits pirating the New Release.
Step 3: Record company, concerned about New Release being pirated, pays Nielsen for survey on piracy.
Result: Record company sponsors the piracy of their New Release.

Beyond that, I really doubt that they could get honest and meaningful information on how many of the pirates actually do buy the records. I bet that the average pirate who chooses to respond to a survey will state that they do buy albums, even if they don't.

Based on my informal observation in Real Life, most people who figure out how to pirate music online don't buy music at all. Even the ones who don't get music online will pirate their friends CDs, if they have the equipment and know-how to copy a CD. It's the ones who are totally clueless about using computers who seem to have the large, legal record collections.

The survey WAS good for a chuckle, though.

-rcv-

[Moldran]

Based on my informal observation in Real Life, most people who figure out how to pirate music online don't buy music at all. Even the ones who don't get music online will pirate their friends CDs, if they have the equipment and know-how to copy a CD. It's the ones who are totally clueless about using computers who seem to have the large, legal record collections.

Funny. My RL experience suggests exactly the opposite. All the people I know who heavily download songs from the net spend a big part of their money on records. For many music fans, having a burned CD is kind of unsatisfactory. If you really like the stuff, you want the lyrics, the booklet, etc. Plus, many "hardcore fans" prefer vinyl over CDs anytime.

Personally, I download (and upload) quite a bit of music over Soulseek (http://www.slsk.org). Since you can get music from the net so easily, I do not buy any records from "big" bands anymore. They and their record labels are making more than enough money already. I do try to buy records of "smaller" bands I like, though.

Moldran

[[wcip]Angel]

Funny. My RL experience suggests exactly the opposite. All the people I know who heavily download songs from the net spend a big part of their money on records. For many music fans, having a burned CD is kind of unsatisfactory. If you really like the stuff, you want the lyrics, the booklet, etc.

Same here. Everyone I know who download music also spend a lot of money on store-bought albums.

With stores like www.play.com it's easy to get carried away. Immensely cheap, and no taxes or duties on any commodity under 200 Norwegian crowns. (roughly $22) Not to mention the fact that they deliver straight to your doorstep.

(Ok, that was a shameless plug, but I really love www.play.com, and once I get enough money, I'm going to start ordering heaps of stuff.)