new xfer scam

[BobThePumpkin]

Pete hasn't posted yet? I find that hard to believe :P

[Count Duckula]

Pete hasn't posted yet? I find that hard to believe :P

I posted a long time back that if Pete or Occhi (or Nicodemus or Shadow or Xi or a couple other wordsmiths) haven't thrown in their two cents, the thread isn't worth your time. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. ;)

My final thought on posting language: misspellings are tolerated to some degree. Shortcuts, however, are not. Have a nice day. :)

I traded in softcore, and I would refuse to trade with someone if they
--typed "wug" or "sip" (show items please/plz)
--had more than one Stone of Jordan
--had a ludicrous amount of hard-to-find uniques and sets
--used the ! command to type weird and annoying phrases

It's also interesting to discover what people think is a worthwhile trade and what isn't. (Like the amazon who got royally upset when I refused to trade my Memory for her Chance Guards!)

I don't do the trading gimmicks, but I do wander into guild recruitment games where the same thing goes on. A fun thing to do with a trust test involves an crappy rare. Join finished cow games, and no doubt you'll find a lot of them. I remember this POS rune bow I found that had bizarre stats, like +6% fire resistance and +1 strength. Something like that. Anyway, I joined a clan recruitment game, played the trust test, and sure enough, the sorceress ran off with my bow. I hope she liked it. :D

[dabea93]

[QUOTE](BobThePumpkin @ Jun 21 2003, 01:37 AM)
Join finished cow games, and no doubt you'll find a lot of them. I remember this POS rune bow I found that had bizarre stats, like +6% fire resistance and +1 strength.

:blink: What’s a POS bow?

[QUOTE]BobThePumpkin @ Jun 21 2003, 01:37 AM) My final thought on posting language: misspellings are tolerated to some degree. Shortcuts, however, are not. Have a nice day.

And IMO also?

Point is: I don’t or never had heard of some of the abbreviations used here. Are they shortcuts?

Edit: dabea93 grammatical errors.

[Feryar]

I think the point is that noone wants a forum like the ones over at battle.net. Have you tried reading a thread over there?
If noone makes it clear to newcomers that writing like that is not acceptable, then this forum will end up like that. Well, maybe not that bad, but certainly worse than it is today.

The problem is not that some regulars pick on others posts, the problem is that these people choose to be so incredibly sensible about it. Almost everytime they immediately crouch into a defensive position, unable to accept the fact that they've just swallowed their foot.

If those "grammar-posts" means that I can read this forum without loss of braincells then I'm all for it.

[Brista]

I recall Wiccan's post that I think first drew some flak - something about a buriza that I don't think any of us could understand at all

I do believe him and I have seen an enormous improvement in his posting

Thank you very much indeed, Wiccan, I am quite convinced that you are taking considerable time and trouble but that it does not come easily to you
:)

[Striker]

:blink: What’s a POS bow?

And IMO also?

Point is: I don’t or never had heard of some of the abbreviations used here. Are they shortcuts?

POS = Piece of Sh*t

IMO = In My Opinion

Most of the abbreviations that you see are common ones. Check Elric's sig for a link to some other ones that show up a lot on these forums.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Personally, I'm more annoyed by grammar nazis than those who use incorrect grammar.

You find yourself in the distinctly unappreciated minority. I refer you to the shiny new "Etiquette" link on the top of this and every page.

I agree that sometimes the case is made overmuch, akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer. But look at it from this point of view: The other flies are a HELLUVA lot more careful who they buzz after that.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

I could probably give multiple examples from all the different boards in LL that I read of people making nitpicky remarks about grammar, which if you think about it is just anal and idiotic (it pushes people away - which is never a good idea , especially when it is on a forum that claims to be around to find answers to the questions).

Anal and idiotic, eh? Yeah, I can live with that.

What I refuse to live with is the chaos and stupidity that shall ensue with the release of the patch and the resurgence of interest of D2x. Then we shall see the true idiots come out of the woodwork. It won't be to the level that was seen during the LoD beta... but it will be an echo of that time. Active patrolling and indication of the level of communication that is expected on this board now will hopefully help head off some of that problem in the near future.

And when they do come, they'll spew their drivel and litter up the forums. And when the regulars begin to enforce their expectations on their inane babble, they shall trumpet the same tune you're playing now: "Grammar Nazi".

Seek you to be associated with these?

- it is not good for finding answers to questions that may come up. Because with people being chased off for B quality writing skills, you have a smaller group for questions to arrive from, and with less questions asked, less answers are found. Be careful, or you could potentially chase off the person who has the question that is key to sparking your interest in your new idea, or new favorite character variant.

As Pete once said: I'll take quality over quantity in my friends. I'll also extend that opinion to my ideas.

Enforcement of rules is not a deterrent to growth in a community, it is an encouragement to growth. Those that recognize the care and standards that the community seeks to uphold will gravitate toward it. Those that do not will wander in, kick up a fit, and then be shown the door. Stagnation of a community does not occur when you place controls upon it; Stagnation occurs when those that truly care about the community cease to care anymore.

Those that come to join this community in the future will address our desire for decent communication skills in one of two ways:

1.) They will accept them and adhere to them.
2.) They will whine, moan, complain and wander off (perhaps with a boot-mark on their pants).

Number 2's shall not be missed. We shall not dwell on what "wonders" they may have contributed to our community. It shall be clear that any contribution would have been drowned in their apparent lack of respect for anything the community desired.

I support the wish that this forum have loftier standards than the lowest common denominator. All the regulars support it; all the Admins support it. If you find that you do not support it, there are several other Diablo strategy forums that you may feel more comfortable with. I believe you already frequent several of them.

[Logic_X]

--- There is a line between a B quality post, and incoherant jibber jabber - just like there is a line between expressing a disliking of a subject and flaming. People don't need to stop trying to chase of the incoherant jibber jabber and the flaming, but it is a bad idea to chase off the B qualities and the people who calmly express a dislike.

--- I never once claimed friends, sometimes the best ideas come from people you hate (anyone ever fly in a jet? speaking of nazi's).

--- While communications is key to a forum, as any quality forum can attest to. It is also key to have a varied assortment of cultures to stew discussion, we are linked by playing d2, that is what Lurker Lounge is about - d2. We are not linked by perfect punctuation and spelling....personally I'd rather see "xfer" than "teransafer" (which yes, I have unfortunately seen).

--- Lowest Common denominator vs. zero tolerance. There is a happy medium, just some people can't see it because they haven't advanced beyond the young mentality of black and white. You can see oranges, purples, and greens of all shades and tints...would you prefer just blue, red, and yellow with none of these secondary and tertiary colors? same mentality of not seeing the grey with black and white. - it's usually better serve to real people, not some hyped up APA hugging nitpickers or the inept "ub3r l33ts".
- Draw a line, but don't put it on the other side of a barbed wire fence or you won't get many visitors.

--- Enforcement of rules is not a deterrant to growth in a community, it is an encouragement to growth.
True and False. True, enforcement of rules can show that you stand behind your word, and thus attract people for the reason of having a reasonably safe and secure area. False, enforcement can be taken too far, would you rather that police officer give you a $109 ticket for going 5 mph over the speed limit? or would you prefer them stopping the guy in the firebird going 45 mph over the speed limit? People try and avoid speed traps for a reason, so be careful how far you take "enforcement" or you'll become one of these small towns with a population smaller than their lowest speed.

--- Stagnation does not occur from community interest, or lack there of. Stagnation occurs when a group grows to isolate itself from any outside influences, thus forcing itself into a paranoid isolation. Through this isolation the group will begin to evaporate down to a very select group now lacking in a large portion of what they had before. Inside this small group even the slightest breeze(conflict) will cause it to crumble like a house of cards. Stagnation is very dangerous in any group activity, as this isolation (caused by fear of unknown, or xenophobia "Fear of outsiders") comes without warning and can occur in any group - even fanatical groups (what? he's less fanatical than us, we shouldn't let him in, he may distract us from our cause).

---Additional Comments---
"Seek you to be associated with these?"
No, nor do I seek to be associated with you in perticular - you my friend seem to be quite an "arse" from my encounters with you, but that is just my perspective. There are good people here, and they are the people I tend to try to associate myself with. (If you're gonna attack someone's post, imo you should have a moderator's tag to back it up or else you're just passing wind in an empty room)

"I'll take quality over quantity in my friends. I'll also extend that opinion to my ideas."
Quality over quantity is a good thing - I prefer to have both though.
As for extending that opinion to ideas, this is flawed logic. You need a quantity of ideas, for good ones to emerge. What are you expecting, one day a person to wake up with the cure for cancer? It won't happen, people have to come up with all the bad ideas, and then tie all the results back together for a good idea - You don't just wake up saying to yourself "guess I'll cure cancer today"

Nicodemus Phaulkon - you seem to be one of the few people with a problem with me, tell me the who, what, and why - or back off. I am accepted by the general populus of this forum, at least I am from the replies I have gotten. If you want me gone, say so, doesn't mean I'll leave, but at least then I'll know for sure where you're coming from.

I'd rather take a million knives in the face, than one in the back.

[Occhidiangela]

. Be careful, or you could potentially chase off the person who has the question that is key to sparking your interest in your new idea, or new favorite character variant.

An incoherent question is hard to answer, and it is often not worth answering. Lack of clarity in the question makes for a cloudy answer. It does no service to those simply reading the exchange, "it" being the lack of clarity.

Imo, a good number of people on these forums are becoming painfully anal about grammar/punctuation

Not "becoming," "have been," for about 4 years. :) However, I'd suggest that MEAT did take it a step further than most in the excruciating breakdown.

"Good enough" for everywhere else in not good enough here. That is the standard, and unless standards are upheld, they fall.

I think that you and I agree that writing style and tone will influence how a critique is received. If your complaint is solely about tone, then yes, that is well understood.

And as for some of your other points: getting into an argument with Nico on this topic will convince neither of you to change your views.

As to moderators: the regs help out, since the mods have only so much time to devote to this board. We are all self confident enough that we don't need to run to Mommy when we see an infraction: we deal with it. On the rare chance that we overstep our bounds, which I have done in the past, the mods usually apply the trout to the appropriate pate.

You might try looking at the regs enforcing community standards as a "citizen's arrest." :D Does that clear up the operating norm for you?

EDIT: I hit post when I meant to hit preview. DOH!

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

We don't seem to be able to convince each other. However, far be it from me to let a personal shot go unanswered.

Now, let's try to navigate this monstrosity of chaos you've authored. I can barely tell what points you're actually trying to rebut. You obviously wrote it while either in a hurry or distracted. At least, I hope that's the case... otherwise, yeeesh. :blink:

You seem to have two categories of bad posting: "jibber jabber" and "B quality". The problem is that what you categorize as "B quality" IS "jibber jabber" to most here, not only myself.

Allow me to differentiate:

--- I never once claimed friends, sometimes the best ideas come from people you hate (anyone ever fly in a jet? speaking of nazi's).

This would be considered "B quality", methinks, if only due to its amazingly bad construction and usage of an apostrophe in a plural. Typical Wanker mistakes. However, it is due to the fact that this statement sits alone in your post, unreferenced, undirected, that constitutes it as "jibber jabber". Not even a single Leet affectation to be found, either. Isn't that interesting?

You can see oranges, purples, and greens of all shades and tints...would you prefer just blue, red, and yellow with none of these secondary and tertiary colors? same mentality of not seeing the grey with black and white. - it's usually better serve to real people, not some hyped up APA hugging nitpickers or the inept "ub3r l33ts".

A color-wheel metaphor. How nice.

If I recall correctly, you're attending art classes at the moment, on top of everything else in your studies. I'd like you to conduct an experiment. Enter one of your studio classes when there is a model. Set up your equipment in your chosen angle as always... and then click on the heaviest Marilyn Manson music you can find out of a personal stereo. Make certain that it drowns out any music that the professor has chosen for the class to listen to during the class.

This is an example of "doing it your own way". This is precisely what going against the established and accepted group practices entails. What will be the result? You'll be warned. You'll be warned again. You'll be removed. Oddly, enough... that's the way it works in most situations in life, including this forum's community.

However, if you make the effort to include yourself in the class, you'll find less objections. If you truly need to listen to different music than the rest, you utilize a personal player and a set of headphones. I believe this would fall under the category of "respect for others". Certainly in my four years of post-secondary Art and Design, I would have never attempted to be a complete asshole in such a way. I had more respect for the environment that was being created and maintained. My personal "style" had no right to impact that environment.

we are linked by playing d2, that is what Lurker Lounge is about - d2. We are not linked by perfect punctuation and spelling....

Wrong. We are linked by attendance at the Lurker Lounge; there are hundreds of thousands of D2 players in the world that have nothing to do with this place. As such, the Lurker Lounge is the sole reason for communication between any of us. Thus, the rules and mores established at the Lurker Lounge from years of existence hold a higher place than any one member. They overrule me. They overrule you. They overrule everyone. That being the case, the Lurker Lounge asks and insists on decently constructed communication. Anyone that objects and rejects this premise is by default objecting and rejecting every member that HAS accepted them and followed them. Once again, "respect for others". In this case, which is the only case, the "others" is the Lurker Lounge forum and the rules that they expect to be followed.

Stagnation is very dangerous in any group activity, as this isolation (caused by fear of unknown, or xenophobia "Fear of outsiders") comes without warning and can occur in any group - even fanatical groups (what? he's less fanatical than us, we shouldn't let him in, he may distract us from our cause).

Our cause? Decent discussion and communication. I find your claims of xenophobia and spontaneous collapse amusing, considering the mileage of this board in all its incarnations and the number of people that still gravitate here for OLD games. Considering its continued health among the plethora of Diablo fansites on the internet, I don't fear for the long life of the Lurker Lounge. I do fear that if it became a place where standards are not upheld, where mores are dropped like a hot rock... that it would indeed disappear. It is not the "Grammar Nazis" of this forum that will bring about its downfall; it is if those members who care enough to say something decide that it's not worth the saying anymore.

No, nor do I seek to be associated with you in perticular - you my friend seem to be quite an "arse" from my encounters with you, but that is just my perspective. There are good people here, and they are the people I tend to try to associate myself with. (If you're gonna attack someone's post, imo you should have a moderator's tag to back it up or else you're just passing wind in an empty room)

It's obvious that you miss the point of member inclusion in the process, again. Occhi already indicated the metaphor of "citizen arrest", but I suppose that's over your head, too. Allow me to provide an example: *point to Elric*

Years ago, Elric was doing the exact same thing that several of us are doing right now. He pointed out sloppy posts. He addressed moronic topics. He indicated severe communication blunders. He grew to a point that he constructed "Elric's Lurker Lounge Etiquette" as a webpage for no other reason than to point to it for the behalf of the morons that he trouted: "Here's what you're doing wrong". And now? Elric is a moderator, with his etiquette link provided as an example of how to conduct oneself while in Bolty's house.

The point? Elric cared. I care. Everyone that indicates when there's a transgression cares. Perhaps if you grew away from your ego-centrism, you'd care too.

Which leads into my final rebuttal:

Nicodemus Phaulkon - you seem to be one of the few people with a problem with me, tell me the who, what, and why - or back off. I am accepted by the general populus of this forum, at least I am from the replies I have gotten. If you want me gone, say so, doesn't mean I'll leave, but at least then I'll know for sure where you're coming from.

I'd rather take a million knives in the face, than one in the back.

I believe our initial kafuffle was over my apparent disinterest in your "I'll conduct a multi-forum cross-post where everyone can post their ideas on the 1.10 patch that absolutely no one could possibly have any idea about " thread. It was at that time you reflected your ego, your brashness and your singular pride at confronting authority. I believe it was at that particular point I categorized you as a waste of skin.

By the way, how's that thread doing? I don't usually dig that far down to read anymore. :lol:

But beyond that? Stay if you wish! Certainly I do not have any power to remove you even if I chose to do so. You're giving yourself far too much weight in the situation at hand. Methinks your ego is in overdrive once again. Most certainly if you're starting to see knives and backs. Seek assistance.

[Ignatz]

The reason the Lounge is such a good forum is because all the undesireables, the derelicts, idiots, flamelogs, and most importantly, the idiots have been driven off. Visit any other forum and there's a great chance that it's populated, not surprisingly, but a good cross section of the internet populace. That is, a bunch of idiots, derelicts, undesirables, and idiots.

You can't enforce the no-idiot policy in writing or in any way other than the attitude of the veteran members. It's really the only vigilant way. So the veterans are generally sensitive to idiocy, in all its forms. Any symptoms of idiocy in a post and the sirens go off. Symptoms include: restatement of the obvious, poorly constructed ideas, etc etc, and of course, bad spelling and bad grammar.

Now, the problem is that poor spelling and grammar usually but definitely not always are signs of a bigger underlying problem, like, say, idiocy (again I'm using this as a catch-all term). Because 90% of the time it is, we all assume this person needs to be taught to behave around here, or needs to be driven out. If wiccan's ailment is a real one, obviously this shows the flaws in a prejudicial clique system.

[Ignatz]

Abreviations are shortcuts. Hm, more hypocracy from the Nazzies.

[Brista]

The reason the Lounge is such a good forum is because all the undesireables, the derelicts, idiots, flamelogs, and most importantly, the idiots have been driven off.

Quite

Nico and the others do a huge service by improving the overall quality of the posts

The Lounge has an intellectual acerbity that none of the other sites do - if you're guessing or you haven't thought out your post properly expect trouble

What my personal experience has been is:

1) Think out carefully my post. Proof-read it a couple of times
2) Find out I didn't do a good enough job as the post gets shredded by sharper minds
3) I then rethink my post based on what whoever took it to pieces had to say plus the ideas I originally liked
4) If I still think I have a point of some merit I come back and post again, taking up the argument

The effect on me is that I post better (more carefully, better thought-out), I'm forced to re-evaluate fondly held beliefs in the light of intelligent criticism (and quite often change them) and I learn more

There is a strong "garbage in, garbage out" aspect here

If you post what is basically a "look at me" post you get a "stfu loser" flame

If you post a well thought-out, clearly expressed and interesting point of view you still get disagreement, criticism and even flaming but it is almost invariably well thought-out and generally leads on to good discussion

I particularly like the Lounge for being a place where posters change their minds. An often repeated truism elsewhere on the internet is that no one ever backs down in an internet argument. That is very much not the case here but you have to really give it your best if you want that to happen

So there you have it - if you want good feedback, simply post better. Even if you get flamed - and there is no one here who doesn't get flamed once in a while - you at least get a well-written flame ;)

I think that the efforts of Nico and the others are the heart of this place, a vital part of what makes these Forums good places to post a considered point of view

A big thank you from me, folks :)

[sojourn]

I don't think its labled aZn but rather ghetto or gangsta :D. That coming out of the words of a person who once typed like that. Anyway, I used to type like that probably a few years ago. I've learned it takes a lot of time to re-type again and correct the sentences so that the listener can understand what's the context about better. Personally, I've asked a lot of my friends, family, and relatives why do they continue to type in fragmented and abbreviated english when I know they are perfectly capable of typing normally.

The usual response I receive is that "it saves time", or "it's another form of language". Anyway, I usually don't get ticked off by this kind of typing slang and others unless it's something that really gets into my face, like for example.. (this was one experience from a long time ago)

Player: u konw how op cow lvl?

Me: Ok, to get to the cow level you'll need to go to act one. Go to the Stony Field, take the red portal into Tristram, and run all the way over to the left till you see Wirt's body.. Grab the leg and then go to town, put it into your Horadric cube and put a tome of TP (Town Portal :D) in there as well, then it'll open! You gotta be in Act 1 to do this tho.

Player: o

*silent for the rest of the game*

This is the kinda usage that I rather despise, why can't people be more appreciative and put more effort in thanking others!

[Count Duckula]

Why, oh why, oh why are people drawing lines in the sand and daring others to step over them?

I hereby invite everybody to stand on those lines and see who can pee the farthest. It'll be more productive than the recent posts, I can tell you that much.

C'mon, people, loosen the grip on your anal retentive-ness!

*steals Nico's helm and tips it*

[Dagni]

I believe our initial kafuffle was over my apparent disinterest in your "I'll conduct a multi-forum cross-post where everyone can post their ideas on the 1.10 patch that absolutely no one could possibly have any idea about "  thread.  It was at that time you reflected your ego, your brashness and your singular pride at confronting authority.  I believe it was at that particular point I categorized you as a waste of skin.

By the way, how's that thread doing?  I don't usually dig that far down to read anymore. :lol:

It wasn't just your "apparent disinterest", it was your written disgust of that thread. Were you trying for a "citizen's arrest" there too? If so, you should apologize, because:

A) there wasn't any other thread specifically on that subject on the LL, and
B ) There was interest from other lurkers (including myself) who joined in the discussion. Oh, and
C) it was posted in the proper forum.

post their ideas on the 1.10 patch that absolutely no one could possibly have any idea about

Certainly it was speculative, but I give at least a 60% chance that Bone Spear in 1.10 will behave exactly as I speculated in that thread. Specifically, 16-24 @ slvl 1, + 4/8/18-19 at the breakpoints.

- Dagni

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

*steals Nico's helm and tips it*

Damnit! I was wearing that because I didn't shower this morning! Now I have "Helm hair"! :blink:

Ducky! Get back here!

[Tiffany_Scott]

I have never (may I emphasize the word never) picked on someone before because of their grammar, punctuation, or syntax, and since I am not an English major I feel inept for doing such, however after reading this post I actually felt perturbed because of your obvious lack of effort at proof-reading your post, regardless if English is not your primary language.  I respond to you as follows:



“arse” should be “ass”
“xfer” should be transfer
“i” needs to be capitalized
“sorta” should be “sort of”
Why is there no period at the end of your sentence?



Why capitalize "GO" in this statement?  A capitalized GO represents the abbreviated version of go, such as when you point to a door and say, "GO!"
“this” needs to be capitalized
“atma’s” needs to be capitalized



What?  This is a fragmented sentence with no coherence
Missing an important period after “tavern”



“the” needs to be capitalized
“scamer” should be “scammer”
Various, important comas missing
There’s that “xfers” word again
Huge run-on sentence



“well” needs to be capitalized
Various, important comas missing
“everthing” should be “everything”
Coherence lacking



“stupid” needs to be capitalized
There’s that “xfer” word again
Should be a period after “scam”, not a coma
“i” needs to be capitalized

<_< Publik skewls. What can you do?