Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines Discussion

[Occhidiangela]

The Bell, IIRC a Jet Ranger or a Huey, is hardly sleek. For sleek helicopters, seek ye out the RAH-66 Commanche, the Sikorsky S-76 corporate model, the Westland Lynx, or the Bell Cobra. That is as 'sleek' as helicopters get. :D

The S-61, also known far and wide as a Sea King, is a venerable Sikorsky design dating from the early 1960's, and now that you mention it, yes, 'twas certainly was a nice match for T-101. To be really anal about it, the modern command post / lab that General Brewster ran would more likely have a BlackHawk (S-70) or a Huey(AB-212) than a Sea King, but it made for a better "obsolete and obsolete" matchup, good job catching that one. :)

You'd think a helicopter person like me might have gotten that one, but it went right over my head . . . at about 50' off the ground. :o

[Rhydderch Hael]

I have to say it:
Ahnold plays a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, but he's a T-800 series Terminator infiltration unit, not a T-101.

"The T-600's had rubber skin. They were easy to make out. But these new ones— they're cybernetic organsims: integrated combat chassis overgrown with living tissue. Breathing, sweat, bad breath— they have it all..."

...or so I've heard.

[Hammerskjold]

>I have to say it:
Ahnold plays a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, but he's a T-800 series Terminator infiltration unit, not a T-101.

Actually does anyone remember or know what the calling convention is? (You cleared it up here with Ahnold, T-800 series model 101. But I'm curious if Robert Patrick had one, or was he just considered a protoype, T-1000?) Did Cameron ever go into that detail with the extra commentaries on the T2 DVD?

>"The T-600's had rubber skin. They were easy to make out. But these new ones— they're cybernetic organsims: integrated combat chassis overgrown with living tissue. Breathing, sweat, bad breath— they have it all..."

>...or so I've heard.

I think when T3 comes out on DVD, I should watch all 3 in succession. My recollection of the first is hazy, but I think the father of John Connor wouldn't lie. ;)

[Zarathustra]

I think within each series there are many models. So the T-800 Series would most likely be the first line of endoskeletons that were covered in skin, the Cybernetic Organisms. These are the Terminators that John Connor has nightmares about. The different model numbers would most likely refer to variations such as those equipped with weapons and those that are two-handed, which would lead one to conclude that a model 101 was the closest approximation to a human replica for infiltration.

[WarLocke]

But I'm curious if Robert Patrick had one, or was he just considered a protoype, T-1000?

If memory serves, at the beginning of T2, the T-1000 materializes in a parking lot as its basic, silver self (the "time travel bubble" even cut out a section of chain-link fence, IIRC). There's a police unit parked nearby, and the officer (Robert Patrick) investigates the unusual activity. I always assumed the T-1000 assumed his image as a "basic human" template, and perhaps kept it later on because the police uniform gave it basic authority in this time period.

I could be wrong, though.

- WL

[Hammerskjold]

>If memory serves, at the beginning of T2, the T-1000 materializes in a parking lot as its basic, silver self (the "time travel bubble" even cut out a section of chain-link fence, IIRC). There's a police unit parked nearby, and the officer (Robert Patrick) investigates the unusual activity. I always assumed the T-1000 assumed his image as a "basic human" template, and perhaps kept it later on because the police uniform gave it basic authority in this time period.

Yes, that is all true I think. But that's not what I was asking. :)

What I meant is he (T-1000) a prototype, I thought (might be wrong) that Ahnold said "the T-1000 is a prototype". Which would mean unless there was multiple prototypes (not that uncommon), there is only 1 T-1000. But since Ahnold is an assembly line, battle worn and battle proven model. His naming (serial) convention would make sense as t-800, as the general type. And Model 101 or whatever else for the variations. Like calling a car with a V8 engine or turbo option a slightly differing name\code from the base model.

Sorry if my question caused the confusion, hopefully I reworded it clearer this time.

[Deadlyman]

I saw the movie on Saturday. I though it was very good.
Did any one notice that the hallway on the very last screen, is the same hallway that is shown in flashbacks on the first Terminator.

Plus I though this Termintrix was very good. She had a Kevin Spacey feel to her in her mannerisms.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Totally incorrect. That is, in the context of the theatrical release (I don't know what they did with the Special Edition cut). An LAPD patrolman (not played by Robert Patrick) investigates a disturbance and finds the hole the timesphere cut in a chain-link fence. A seemingly naked T-1000 then assaults the policeman and takes his weapon. Next cut shows the 1000 in an LAPD uniform and embarking the cop's patrol cruiser.

[Rhydderch Hael]

"So this other guy, he's a Terminator like you?"

"Not like me. He is a T-1000. Advanced prototype."

"More advanced than you?"

"Affirmative."

[Hammerskjold]

>Totally incorrect. That is, in the context of the theatrical release (I don't know what they did with the Special Edition cut). An LAPD patrolman (not played by Robert Patrick) investigates a disturbance and finds the hole the timesphere cut in a chain-link fence. A seemingly naked T-1000 then assaults the policeman and takes his weapon. Next cut shows the 1000 in an LAPD uniform and embarking the cop's patrol cruiser.

Now that you mention it, that sounds about right. I have to borrow the Special Edition if I want to compare the two. But iirc, the T-1000 came out of the time bubble as a naked Robert Patrick, not as his silver surfer alter ego.

There is one *scene in the special edition that wasn't in the theatrical release, that sheds more light on Ahnold's transition from cold machine to a more human like character. Aside from the extras like alternate ending etc, that scene alone was worth it for me to see the special edition.

Thanks for the recollection correction.

*(At least, I believe it wasn't in the theatrical version.)

[Zarathustra]

What hallway do you mean?

[Deadlyman]

The hallway that is shown at the very end when John is narrating what happened when Judgement Day occurred. Its the last screen before the credits. Its from the underground shelter

[Zarathustra]

Grr... now I've got to go out and rent the original Terminator to see that.

[Striker]

Usual warning about spoilers, but I'll try to keep them limited:

I saw it the other day, and I liked it. Pretty much what I was expecting, although I didn't see John's ultimate fate coming. That was a nice twist.

The T-X and Katie Brewster are both purty indeed... ;)

Nick Stahl, in the words of the women who saw it with us, is "hot. Very hot. Did we mention he's hot?"

Arnold was reduced to what amounted to comic relief. Um, ok. Weird how in these three movies he's gone from bad guy to almost human to "window dressing". I wasn't expecting the same Terminator from T2, but that extreme change was something that I didn't like. Shouldn't have been that bad, but some of his one-liners were funny, though.

The special effects were on par with the other movies that have been released this summer. Watching the fight between the Terminators in the bathroom looked very Matrix-y. Not in the bullet-time sense, but in the physical aspects of both of them.

About time travel: I recently rented The Time Machine remake, and one thing that was mentioned in that movie was how certain events must occur for the future to be what it is. For the Terminator universe, the creation of the time displacement spheres (TDS) were based on finding and preventing John from surviving to the future. Well, if he didn't survive, then the TDS never would have been built, which leads to a temporal paradox, meaning John would have survived and the loop starts over again. Trying to make sense of Temporal Theory does make one's head hurt, doesn't it? ;)

Overall, it was a good movie. I'll probably go see it again to catch some of the things I missed the first time.

[Striker]

It was Katie's father, not Arnold, who mentioned Crystal Peak (I believe that was the name of the place).  Did Mr. Brewster understand what Arnold was trying to do and gave John and Katie the location of a fallout shelter instead of the location of Skynet's main computer (a location which, as it turned out, doesn't exist)?

I think Katie's father understood the extent of Skynet's control of the world's computer systems. Prior to Skynet's "activation", some of the nuclear subs and silos were infected with the virus that It (It being Skynet) created. With that control, Katie's father probably felt that it was only a matter of time before those nukes were launched. He wanted nothing more than to save Katie and to make sure she survived whatever it was that was going to happen.

I think this is what the Terminator knew as well. With Skynet and the T-1's running rampant on the base, there was a very small probability of making it to Mexico in time to survive the nuclear launches. Given that Judgment Day was going to happen within the hour and it would take slightly less than that to make it there, the Terminator improvised his primary mission.

[Zarathustra]

Sounds right to me. Her father wanted them to survive, so mentioned the location of the shelter. The Terminator hears this, knows how people think, and just rattles off a line about the core being there. It ws a surefire way to get them to a safe place.

[Occhidiangela]

. . . is one of my subroutines."

An Arnold line early in the movie. :)

I liked it better than "talk to the hand."

[Skandranon]

I think this is what the Terminator knew as well.  With Skynet and the T-1's running rampant on the base, there was a very small probability of making it to Mexico in time to survive the nuclear launches.  Given that Judgment Day was going to happen within the hour and it would take slightly less than that to make it there, the Terminator improvised his primary mission.

Alternatively, the decision to go to CRI changed history, the Terminator "remembered" that John and Katie survived in the Crystal Peak shelter, and events fell into place to lead them there.

[Sailboat]

I liked most of the things you guys liked.

The short version of what I didn't like: it's an entirely *smaller* movie than T2. Much less dramatic, somehow. If we switched them in order (1, 3, 2) they'd feel more right....albeit the plotline would be somewhat scrambled.

I wonder if the difference we're seeing is bascially the difference between the directors?

Last but not least: although it's been done before (notbly in the otherwise pretty tame "The Day After"), the scenes of the missiles going up into a clear sky as everyone stopped going through the motions of life, looked up, and realized what it meant...wow. That's chilling, visceral, and almost voyeuristic. To see the ICBMs going up is to witness the end of the world. It's fascinating in a sick way...."warnography".

Sailboat

[Doc]

I have not seen T3 but have read several discussions about it.

Sounds like there are some major conflicts.

James Cameron was making T3. The arm and several bits left behind in T2 (Remember, he lost his arm in the gears, and left his shed skin back at Miles' house) is found by the military who picks up where Cyberdine left off.

The real ending for T2 shows John Conner becoming a Senator. This can be seen in a special edition directors cut 4 DVD that was only available through some special edition movie club. I have that 4 DVD set. T2 was originally going to be a 3 hours and 45 minutes movie with a small intermission in the middle. Many of the clipped scenes drastically changes how the future was meant to be.

In T2, we find out that Arnold was not a standard T unit. He to was an advanced prototype, but his full functions were not enabled. In the gas station scene, Sarah Connor slices open the back of his head, peels off the back of his scalp, pops off a metal plate, and pulls out an arrestor chip. This enables a special "learning mode" that allows him to become considerably more human. It also cuts back on his need to "terminate." He was stolen from the special unit factory before he could be fully programed, and then the factories teleporter was used to send him back in time with only minimal instruction and programing. In T2, Arnold was a special series of T units that were meant to mimic human behaviour to a greater degree and gather intellegence.

With out realizing it, John also brought about the rise of the machines, as we would find out. Arnold explains during a driving through the desert scene in that station wagon. When John becomes a Senator, he creates a special defense system to prevent nuclear war, and to prevent newly formed AI units from going rogue. It was infact, John, and his special committee that created the Hunter Killer Units. Skynet takes over their functions. HKs were meant to go abroad and hunt down nukes in rogue states, and used to police the now functioning robots incase of malfunction. Skynet does indeed plant a virus. It takes over this system as well as the satilite controls for earth's newest resident, cybernetic organisms. John, as we found out in this deleted scene, became the leader of the resistance trying to make ammends for his mistake.

Many scenes were deleted because they reveal to much about the future, namely, James' idea on how T3 should be. Then, he scrapped the program. The Terminator series was going to span a total of 5 films. The first two involved time travel backwards. T3 was was all about the rise of the machines. T4, according to James Cameron himself was about the future. Time travel technology was going to be used to send terminators forward in time and halt future progress so that the past would be protected. If you know what's happening in the present, or know how something should be turning out, you have to go forward to the future to ensure that certain things happen. T5 was an utter mystery, nothing at all was ever said about it anywhere, in any interview. Interesting concept though sending units forward in time to make sure that the past events happen. I guess a terminator was send forward in time to make sure a terminator was sent backward in time. One could become boggled if one thinks to deeply.

James not only cut the scenes, but, at the last minute, changed the ending. In that ending, we see Sarah driving off mumbling about the future, leaving everything intentionally vague.

The Terminator series had some serious Star Wars vibes going. I mean, there was this whole John Connor being Skynet's father sort of thing. Cyberdine created the AI program, it was John that layed the foundation, created the machines, and layed the goundwork for Skynet to take over. Infact, it was John that called it Skynet, from his network of HK machines patroling the globe keeping the world safe.