Regarding Assassin Blade Traps

[DSTheHermit]

The various "Blade" traps for the assassin all add a fraction of "weapon damage", which I'm sure includes str/dex as necessary, the base weapon damage, and probably any form of enhanced damage. My question is if anyone knows whether or not claw mastery applies to this, or if it only works for actually swinging a claw.

Thanks in advance, so sayeth The Hermit.

"Choices always were a problem for you..." Tool - Opiate

[unless]

Did some testing with a Blade Assassin a while back. Yes, claw mastery does apply. Dual-wielding is unhelpful, only the damage from the character's right-hand claw is used. WEAPON SPEED IS IGNORED for Blade Fury once you're in attack position. All of this leads me to think that the most powerful Blade Assassin would be one with a big ol' high-damage ethereal elite polearm. Since weapon speed doesn't matter, you can use Fade to compensate for the lessened resists. A good claw + maxed mastery is the alternative, if you really want to use a shield (and are willing to sacrifice some killing speed).

I also realized that putting points into Blade Fury is a big stinkin' waste. 19 skill points for an extra 93 damage per blade, and an extra cost of seven mana per shot? Thanks, I'll pass. Stick 'em in Venom, and get 400+ extra damage at a flat cost of 12 mana every few minutes, and you're now dual-elemental.

The trouble with this build is that, although you're doing a lot of damage quite quickly to a single target, you don't have any effective means of crowd control. Blade Sentinel doesn't do nearly enough damage to be viable in late Nightmare even, the other traps need a lot of synergy points to really be useful (and your high-damage equipment is ill-suited for an elemental trapper anyway), and if you're gonna march down the Martial Arts tree, why not just make a Martial Arts assassin? The whole point of Blade fury is that it's ranged, you can do a lot more damage with the Martial Arts attacks if you're gonna be up close.

This leaves us with Cloak of Shadows, and while it's probably one of the most useful skills in the game imo, it'll make for some reeaaalllly slow going in Hell difficulty.

I wish Blade Shield didn't have so many damn prerequisites, it could at least be useful as a one-pointer for Martial Artists. As it stands, I unfortunately don't see any use for the Blade skills. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[Occhidiangela]

Make sure your weapon had "Knock Back."

:)

I was messing about with Blade Fury the other day, and using a claw with Knockback, and spraying the Blades about, my ability to knock back monsters was demonstrated.

It may not be MS with knock back, but it can work.

[Ice]

I think the best thing about blade fury is not the applied weapon damage but rather its ability to trigger effects like crushing blow and chance to cast. This makes one weapon truly stands out... crescent moon ideally in some ethereal elite weapon. The static field and chain lightning allows mass damage of whole mobs while the high %ed and possibly crushing blow does great damage to an individual monster.

Even if a um (for crescent moon) is deemed to be an unattainable aim, traps can be a very viable alternative even without maxed synergies. With 20 wake of inferno, 15 fire blast, 20 death sentry and 10+ lightning sentry, I was doing around 1000-1200 woi and 1-750 ds damage which was quite sufficient (surprisingly) in hell. That basically means that I had to give up venom but it didn't really hurt much since I did tapping about half the time. Having some poison charms and a poison length more than what venom offers also helps to negate monster regeneration while I do other stuff.

For crowd control, you have mind blast and cloak of shadows to play with while traps do their work. In cases where crowd control isn't that necessary, blade fury comes in very handy in eliminating individual monsters or in the case of a static'ing blade fury, cast a few furies into the fray first to bring monsters down to 1/2 life before starting the crowd control. Also as mentioned by occhidiangela, having knockback and spraying blade fury at a crowd is also an effective means of crowd control at times.

If mana runs low due to trap casting, blade fury is also a means to leech back.

Overall, the traps plus balde fury makes for some very interesting combos for twinks or notwinks alike.

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

I think the best thing about blade fury is not the applied weapon damage but rather its ability to trigger effects like crushing blow and chance to cast. This makes one weapon truly stands out... crescent moon ideally in some ethereal elite weapon.

The power of this runeword cannot be underestimated. Crescent Moon rivals any weapon in the game, and will outclass even such monstrosities as Breath of the Dying in a Player-vs-Monster setting. On a zealot or werewolf, this weapon can rival the best uniques of 1.09d... and better them in most cases. Can you imagine two of these on a Frenzy Barb? How about the fact that one could CHEAPLY outfit Act 2 Greizmen with an ITD, Cruel weapon having the ability to cast a Static Field every 5th jab (read: ~every three seconds or so)?

And now, we see its application as a casting ingredient? Crescent Moon blade furies, Crescent Moon Iron Golems... it boggles the mind. It's like having the ability to build and utilize a Schaeffer's Hammer at ~1/2 the level requirement and DEFINITELY cheaper budget.

Your's for the wonderful price of a Shael, Um and Tir (highly crunchable runes) and a three socket "something". Even an exceptional base for this level 47 runeword results in a catastrophically effective weapon.

[DSTheHermit]

Well upon further testing of myself and the rest of you, here's what I've determined:

- Blade Fury itself is viable. It can effectively be made to work like Multishot by aiming at the ground an wiggling the mouse left and right to achieve a fairly solid 45-60 degree firing arc. Knockback, freeze, and hit slows target are all very useful. As mentioning above, Mind Blade and CoS serve as crowd control. Off the top of my head, the following weapons seem the most viable (preferably ethereal where viable, as you won't be swinging):

Runewords - Breath of the Dying (PMH, stat boost, poison novas, dual leech), Crescent Moon (chance to cast mods), Doom (chance to cast,+2 skills, holy freeze aura, freeze, PMH - may rival Crescent) , Famine (PMH, what's a phys immune?).

Upgraded Normal Uniques - Bonesnap (Crushing Blow, resists), Hellplague (additional elemental damage, dual leech), Shadowfang (dual leech, cold). Does Deadly Strike work? Might make Grim Reaper work (DS, PMH, leech).

Upgraded Exceptional Uniques - Pompeii's Wrath (Knockback, chance to cast, slow, small fire), The Minotaur (Slow, blind, crushing blow), Sureshrill Frost (Cold damage, freeze), Earthshaker (Chance to cast, blind, knockback), Bloodtree Stump (Crushing blow, resists), Hone Sundan (crushing blow, sockets), Coldsteel Eye (possible DS, slow, blind, leech), Ali Baba (MF, sockets can be used for crowd control effects).

Elite Uniques - Rune Master (all sorts of potential for crowd control, extra damage, resists, or anything else you'd desire), Baranar's Star (elemental damage), Cranium Basher (crushing blow, resists, amp), Azurewrath (+skills, +attributes, two large additions of elemental damage), Frostwind (Freeze, large cold damage).

Potential Bows/Crossbows - (Not sure if these work) - Magewrath (Blind, leech), Buriza Do-Kyanon (not explaining), Hellrack (elemental damage, socketable crowd control). Do piercing attacks work? May make Buriza/Razortail very good additions.

Surprisingly, many belts such as Razortail also add desirable mods, as well as hitpower gloves.

I think the ideal build would be something like; 1 Blade Sentinel/Fury, Maxed venom, Maxed Cloak of Shadows OR Mind Blast, Maxed Shadow (Warrior/Master). Maxed or near-Maxed Fade, possibly Death Sentry if you've got a decently fast weapon for CE damageghtning, 1 point in pre-reqs for pretty much everything.

Further testing is in order, so sayeth The Hermit.

"Trying to remember when, but it makes me dizzy...seems like I've been here before, seems so familiar." Tool - Sweat

[Occhidiangela]

  I think the ideal build would be something like; 1 Blade Sentinel/Fury, Maxed venom, Maxed Cloak of Shadows OR Mind Blast, Maxed Shadow (Warrior/Master). Maxed or near-Maxed Fade, possibly Death Sentry if you've got a decently fast weapon for CE damageghtning, 1 point in pre-reqs for pretty much everything.

Comments on that idea. I see a few wasted points.

The Burriza equipped Trapper prsents an interesting prospect. However, if you used a three socketed claw, and either some claw blocking or a shield . . . I'd expect you can easily find +1 -+3 of various skills on amulets or claws, or the standard Lore Helm by early to mid nightmare diff. Rune morphing should guarantee that at least. :)

1 Blade Sentinal
1 Blade Fury
1 Blade Shield (To catch the leakers who slip in now and again!) Optional
Maxed Venom
1 Cloak of Shadows (more later if spare points avaialble)
1 Mind Blast (the physical damage just won't help)
Maxed Shadow Master or at least 12 points here.
1 Point to Fade, a bit more if not using a shield
Death Sentry. About 10.

58 points total at that point, with Master at 12, or 66 with Master at 20.

Then you spread points where you need them most as you approach Baal in NM, and beyond:)

[DSTheHermit]

Comments on that idea.  I see a few wasted points.

The Burriza equipped Trapper prsents an interesting prospect.

1 Blade Sentinal
1 Blade Fury
1 Blade Shield (To catch the leakers who slip in now and again!) Optional ---- Very optional. At only 1/4 damage, I wonder if it's worth it. I suppose if you have knockback/fear.
Maxed Venom
1 Cloak of Shadows (more later if spare points avaialble) --- I'd say at least five to get duration increase
1 Mind Blast (the physical damage just won't help) ---- More interested in raising chance to convert
Maxed Shadow Master or at least 12 points here. --- Warrior may be more useful dependant on playstyle, but I see frequently switching skills, so she may not be that good.
1 Point to Fade, a bit more is not using a shield ---- Very little intention of a shield since you're much more likely to get a useful two-hander than one-hander for this build. Also, most of the above could recieve a resist jewel or somesuch via socket quest. Azurewrath is the only particularly stunning one-handed aside from Schaefer/Crescent Moon; two of these are extremely rare and have high level reqs anyhow.
Death Sentry.  About 10.

58 points total at that point, with Master at 12, or 66 with Master at 20. 

Then you spread points where you need them most as you approach Baal in NM :)

---- Generally agreed, although I was thinking more "full game plan". This is probably the proper distribution around the time you enter Hell.

A message

[Occhidiangela]

Well, if I posit a target of getting into act V in the early to mid 70's, then I have about 85 points to deal with up to that time.

This givew me 19 more points to assign above the 66.

What then do I concentrate on?

Maxing an elemental attack? Lightning Sentry would be a good choice.

Maxing Death Sentry, and 9 to a few other skills for boosts? That boosts DS blast radius, which makes DS more efficient.

Flesh out a Fire Trap? You'd only get WoI to 17, or WoF to 18 and then have no room for Synergy boosts.

[DSTheHermit]

Ah, but Death Sentry is one of three skills that provide a tri-element attack; the others being Vengeance and Phoenix Strike, and the lattermost does not do them all simultaneously. Death Sentry provides lightning strikes, and close-range CE; phys and fire. It certainly seems like the trap to choose, with a little room to work on synergies. What I like about this build is so many of the main skills only require a few points, enabling you to reach near-maximum potential by the beginning of Hell.

Undoubtedly, it means this will be nerfed beyond all recognition, so sayeth The Hermit.

"It's not enough, I need more, nothing seems to satisfy." Tool - Stinkfist

[Ignatz]

...then what determines the attack speed of Blade Fury at that point? Casting speed? Nothing? (Bleah! Though on the upside, grab that ethereal Ribcracker)

Also, do any of the following NOT work with BF? :

Piercing
Deadly Strike
Poison damage (from charms, Venom, etc)
Other Elem. Damage (charms, items, auras, etc)
Freezing
Chilling
-% target AC
Slain Monsters Rest in Peace
Blindness
Hit Causes Target to Flee

The % Chance to Cast on Striking mod seems awfully cool with this skill. I had an absolute blast playing my FA % chance to cast Zon and the BF assassin version sounds like a fun spin-off. Heck, in 1.10, maybe even Hellmouth gaunts may do enough fire damage to be worthwhile (well, yeah, there's a big opportunity cost there).

Ignatz

[unless]

Hot damn. This is just the sort of thing I was hoping for. Death Sentry is an inspired choice - its synergies are helpful, but not really necessary, and in combination with BF and Venom, you're tri-elemental - the only thing that would give you much trouble is a physical/poison immune. It's plenty good crowd control without a lot of points in it, and you could compensate for its mana cost with BF's leech.

This is definitely the blade build to beat, even without the godly equipment everyone was on about earlier in the thread. I'm gonna build one for sure.

[Dagni]

...then what determines the attack speed of Blade Fury at that point? Casting speed? Nothing? (Bleah! Though on the upside, grab that ethereal Ribcracker)

From skills.txt, there are 5 frames between blades. AFAIK, nothing affects that speed.

- Dagni

p.s. Has anyone tried to release charge-ups with Blade skills?

[TaiDaishar]

Ah the irony! I made a Blade Fury assassin a month or two ago and it sucked so much (while twinked she couldn't kill in act 5 normal even).

Now with all those added effects (God please make pierce work on BF) BF could become a decent (or dare I say uber?) build that actually could take you to hell.

[Ice]

Maxing Death Sentry, and 9 to a few other skills for boosts? That boosts DS blast radius, which makes DS more efficient.
Flesh out a Fire Trap? You'd only get WoI to 17, or WoF to 18 and then have no room for Synergy boosts.

I loved venom but in the end I went tri-elemental in the form of blade fury (physical and static), WoI (fire) and DS (lightning). To stop monster regeneration, I used poison charms instead which wouldn't restrict me to just 0.4 seconds duration.

Further leaving shadowmaster at lvl 8-12 will give you more points for trap synergies. Fire blast adds good damage to WoI and increase the number of shots for DS (lvl 15 would give DS 10 shots total). WoI would more or less be satisfactory at that point at 1000-1200 since DS also adds synergy damage to it. Rest of the points can then be spent between lightning sentry as a synergy for DS or shadow master for a beefier minion.

The 20 points spent into traps instead of in venom seemed more worthwhile since they effectively boosts 2 different elements due to synergy whereas venom would stumble against poison immunes. The use of some poison charms would also go a long way to effectively increase your damage by stopping monster regeneration.

[whyBish]

This is the build I played since the beta came out until yesterday. Pretty decent till A4 NM, but now am stuck. Some notes to various suggestions of others:
- Blade shield with one point is useless with blade fury, it's duration is so short, and you are a ranged attacker anyway. BS would be nicer for a martial artist.
- Death sentry is nice with any build, but it seems to have been nerfed (speaking solely from players 1 point of view).
- Maxxed venom is nice, but good luck beating regen of poison immunes with DS.
- Pus spitter dropped for e in early nightmare, pretty near to the perfect weapon (lower resist + good damage+ low reqs) Would be nice to cube it to elite to double the physical damage, but no chance of legit finding those runes before the beta ends (*unless countess runs are better than I have seen so far in NM)
- Biggest downer : BF uses A.R. Not all your blades will hit. This hurts most if you play plars 1 where you are not as high a level compared with your enemy, and hurts again since assassins are notorious for low A.R. and lack of A.R. boosting skill. I suppose I could have gone with CoS but I need a mid level shadow to help the merc tank, and a decent LS/DS for immunes, and still don't have enough points to pump fade past 1 :(

[kandrathe]

Could you gamble for equipment with better AR affixes?

[Kharohz]

Ahh woe..

Once again Blade Sentinel is totaly IGNORED... :(

I consider blade sentinel potientally better than blade fury. But I guess that is just me.

What sentinel doesn't do:

Leech
It isn't based on player AR (IE: Always hits)

Why don't people bother with sentinel! Fools! ;)

[Ice]

IIRC, other things that blade sentinel doesn't do...

It doesn't transfer crushing blow,
It doesn't transfer chance-to-cast skills,
It doesn't transfer hit freeze target,
It doesn't transfer hit blinds target,
It doesn't transfer knockback,
and I don't think it transfers open wounds, hit cause monster flee or slow target either.

On the other hand, blade fury has no timer and transfers all of the above effects which can be very significant in terms of damage and crowd control. The need for AR can be nullified with ITD or against bosses, additional dex or AR.

[DSTheHermit]

Just a couple of votes for new terminology;

Hit Causes Monster to Flee = Fear
This build? Shursin. Short for Shuriken Assassin, and pronounced sure-sin, since this is a sure sin to get so much use out of one skill point. :op

As much as I enjoy this build, I think it may be a little broken. If testing finds it to start owning Hell, I might suggest it gets 10% weapon damage at level one, +3% per point after, giving it 37% at level 10, 67% at 20, and 100% at level 31. That way it's still viable, you just have to make a couple of more skill point sacrifices to make it work. It would reach approximate current effectiveness at slvl 22, which is almost a given for anyone choosing to focus in it - any +2 traps or +2 assassin skills will do. I think at the LL we assume any skill one focuses in will hit at least level 25 - 82% weapon damage. Downside will be increased mana costs and loss of some of the efficiency here, but since it leeches, I believe such cost can be mitigated in most areas. As it stands now it doesn't even require any investment in energy. I think it MAY be balanced now by AR, requiring a dump into CoS and/or massive AR boost items, preferably by %. ITD is only a lukewarm solution unless you want to rely on DS for act bosses and all. I intend to hit A2 today with my rebuild (original used claw mastery - really a waste for this build) and when I do, I'll pick up a weapon of vileness and test PMH if no one else has by then; it will probably be a key to making this build survive in Hell.

My current try is pumping str and dex to 103 and 100 respectively for archon plate and good base AR, putting a point in vit every level along the way. Once str/dex goals are met, I plan on 3 vit/2 energy every level, mostly to increase natural mana regen and give me a bigger pool against phys/leech immunes. And the expectation that something will be done to make this skill require more points to be effective to get the higher casting cost in play. The only other suggestion off the top of my head for encouraging more point investment is to simply reverce the mana scale; have it start at 8 mana per additional blade and reduce by .4 per level, to a minimum of 1.

Here's to more suggestions and hoping Blizzard reads this, so sayeth The Hermit.

"UBER UBER UBER UBER UBER!!!" Tool - Wait, that's not a Tool song. Bugger.

"Someone above the crowd, someone who seems to feel the same." Tool - Eulogy