What can change the nature of a man?

[Quark]

It's not just extra reading. The reading is completely essential to the game, and will most likely give you more experience than actual fighting.

Planescape was simply one of the most brilliant games I ever played. At first I was afraid of the 'can't die' thing, but they made it work really well even though it made it hard to 'lose'.

Oh yeah, WarLocke: Saw 'good, good stuff' as your subtitle and secretly screamed in my head, thinking back to 'the good stuff'. Then I saw the poster and *sigh*. Then I read the topic and hey, now I want to play that game again.

[Dani]

I don't think there was ever a better story/plot in a computer game than in Torment.

-Bolty

I don't think there has been many stories in the fantasy genre in any format that would be better than Torment. I think of it as the first (and so far only one of three) game that has really passed entertainment and entered the realm of art.

And how come noone is mentioning Ravel, the deepest character in any computer game ever.

For me it was love that could change the nature of a man.

[BlackLightning]

Thanks a lot for the information.

I really appreciate the opinions and input.
One question though- Is Planescape:Torment an expansion of somesorts, and in what are of the Forgotten Realms does it revolve around? :ph34r:

[Whiggles]

One question though- Is Planescape:Torment an expansion of somesorts, and in what are of the Forgotten Realms does it revolve around?  :ph34r:

No, Planescape Torment is a completely stand-alone game. It's not part of the "Forgotten Realms" series, it's part of the "Planescape" series, so it is a completely different world (or series of worlds, in this case). It's very different from the other Infinity Engine games. Whereas Icewind Dale reuses a lot of Baldur's Gate's artwork, the only borrowed graphics in PST are the blinking indicators showing the destination of your characters.

[BlackLightning]

Cheers Whiggles,
Really appreaciate the input.

Do any of you guys play Neverwinter Nights (NWN)?

[Medicine Man]

Chiming in with my less than 2 cents worth: I agree, Torment was one of, if not the most, memorable games I've ever played. It is truly a shame that there will likely never be another game of this style.

Another game that ranks amongst my most memorable is Homeworld. Solid concept and execution, and a decent storyline if you take the time to read the historical information in the manual. Homeworld's music was also quite unique and appropriate. The only other game I can think of that had as memorable a score was Mechwarrior 2.

Cheers.

[WarLocke]

Quark:
Oh yeah, WarLocke: Saw 'good, good stuff' as your subtitle and secretly screamed in my head, thinking back to 'the good stuff'. Then I saw the poster and *sigh*. Then I read the topic and hey, now I want to play that game again.

Eh... Why do I feel slightly insulted? ;)

Medicine Man:
Another game that ranks amongst my most memorable is Homeworld. Solid concept and execution, and a decent storyline if you take the time to read the historical information in the manual. Homeworld's music was also quite unique and appropriate. The only other game I can think of that had as memorable a score was Mechwarrior 2.

I agree, Homeworld is on my Top 10. I never finished it, though, because the second- (or third?) -to-last mission (the one with 120+ Ion Frigates guarding the hyperspace inhibitor) simply drove me nuts. But Homeworld's music was indeed incredible.

Have you seen Simone? The movie begins with the first cords of Homeworld's theme. I jumped the first time I heard that...

I don't remember MechWarrior 2's musical score (I have a first-run, DOS-based copy that hates running on XP), but I found MechWarrior 4's (Vengeance/Black Knight/Mercenaries) techno-rock sound very good. The Icewind Dales have very good scores as well, and even Arcanum has some nice bits.

[Medicine Man]

WarLocke:
Concerning Homeworld -- There is a very easy way to punch a hole in that defensive sphere. The AI of the enemy capital ships in that mission are very single minded. If you send out a party of scouts and 'tag' a couple of the ion frigates you will draw between 5-9 of the enemy into pursuit. The catch is that they will attempt to attack and kill the scouts regardless of what else you throw at them. Once you have got a chunk of the enemy fleet following, you can retreat your scouts behind the mothership and have your capital ships burn the pursuers to slag. Personally, I prefer to send out the salvage corvettes to intercept as many as I can. I managed to capture nearly twenty ships of various types during that mission.

I found this mission very unusual as the AI is rather good at reacting to attacks in all the previous parts of the game. He's just a real dozy bastard in this one mission. Poor scripting maybe?

You should try finishing it one day, WarLocke. The last two missions are quite hectic -- you need to be quite strong to survive them.

[Premezilla]

I don't think there was ever a better story/plot in a computer game than in Torment.

-Bolty

Word up Bolty,

I know some people aren't gonna like me for this, but I haven't played any computer games (besides Diablo 2, of course..) for a while, and so for good games that actually have PLOT to them I've been having my fill of console games. There are some pretty good plots out there, ranging from real-life occurences to extra-ordinary happenings. But one game that really stood out for me both in plot and actual gameplay was The Legend of Dragoon for the Playstation. (Yes, the first one.) It had a beautifully woven plot that took you across many different backdrops, although it's kinda hard for me to remember now, as I played it a long time ago. But what was amazing about the game was that you would have to rev-visit some places more than once in order to advance the story. And what I liked about that was it changed as the story progressed.
For example, in one part, you must rescue a girl from a jail, but much later in the book, you must go back and rescue a prince, only to find that the jail has crumbled, and the prince is being held on the roof of it. It was parts like that that held me captivated and wanting to play through even more, just to see the next five minutes of it.

Another game which may be a bit odd is Metal Gear Solid, also for the Playstation. (I didn't really enjoy the second...that plot twist dissapointed me.) It actually made me feel like I was in the game, because the plot and atmosphere all melded together to create one of the most memorable experiences that I'd had.

okay, my 2 cents have been collected. Over and out.

Umm, people? In the Interplay home page, it says that the game (Planescape: Torment) is no longer available. Does that mean I can't purchase it? Because I've been reading everybody's posts, and it sounds like a true plot-driven game. I really want to try it, and I was wondering if anybodu knew places where they sell it. Okay, thanks.

[DralaFi]

Do you guys know that you can Finish Planescape: Torment 4 different ways?

There is the one at the end where you can defeat the transcended one. This one has its own ending movie.

There is the one at the end where you can Merge with the transcended one. And so does this one. Different movie then the one for the one where you just kill him.

If you kill alot of civilians and Dabus in Sigil, the lady of pain will come and end your life.

Then, if you get into the big tower in the lower ward. I don't remember what it is called exactly. And have the Iron Golem forge you the Blade of the Immortal. You can use it to kill yourself and thus end your suffereing and your Torment; thus ending the game.

And thats the 4 different ways. Ofcourse the best one and the most interesting is to merge with the transcended one, plus using the Bronze sphere you can find out your true name. Which you can't do before you merge with the 3 other incarnations.

[Scalefang]

Ok...this is gonna be jumbled...so many things going through my head....

First off:

If you are looking for Torment its Out Of Print...you're only hope is finding the last few Duel Jewl sets in a Wall-Mart or Ebay. Got the original 4 CD, Instruction Manual, and Strategy Guide all off of Ebay myself...

Now on to other things...

To DralaFi There is a Fifth way...you can Believe yourself right out of existance as well...The requirement for that though is the creation of Adahn or learning of Nemelle's race's ability...one or the other.

About Ravel: I don't know when IWD2 takes place but Firtha is an aspect of Ravel just as Mebbeth, Ei-Venne, and Marta were. Ravel was an excellent character so it's good to know that she didn't die...I think...

About Planescape: The Planes contain every god and diety of all the other universes...so it's like them in the fact that all those worlds are part of the Planes. Forgotten Realms and Baldur's Gate would all be considered part of the Prime Material Plane...

Regular Feedback and Comments:

Vhailor's voice actor is also the guy who did Goliath on "Gargoyles". And it annoyed me too that those Mercykillers didn't notice Vhailor with you...at first I thought it was because he was dead already...then brought him back alive and same response.

Ignus...ah Ignus...I just call him supplicant after I learn everything from him...

Heh Heh Heh...

Fjull Forked Tounge was one of the funnest characters...it was just too tempting to rip him off of everything...

Who you fight in the Fortress of Regrets depends on your Alignment...If you're evil or neutral you fight Ignus...If you are evil you will fight Vhailor...and they will be there regardless of whether you killed them before or not....

If you go through the game with Near Infinity you will find a whole lot of vocal interaction that you might not usually hear...that and copies of various phrases...like they weren't sure which one to use...

Overall though, I loved this game...it made me think...made me care about the characters...so many touches made it all work so well...though I will admit Vhailor kindof got the shaft in the character development. Though it balances in that you basically learn EVERYTHING about him when you meet him.

Though I am saddened by the fact that because of the sales there will probably never be another game like this...

[DralaFi]

Humm interesting.

If I remember Adhan or was it Adham is the false name for TNO, that you can use when people ask you for your name? How do you Believe your self out of existence. I have never heard of this way before. Seems interesting to try it.

[Whiggles]

Humm interesting.

If I remember Adhan or was it Adham is the false name for TNO, that you can use when people ask you for your name?

The best thing about saying your name is Adahn is undoubtedly that, if you lie to enough people, he materializes in the Smouldering Corpse bar and gives you some information and items. I was quite taken aback when I went into the bar and he was there waiting for me.

[Solanalos]

Huge thanks to the starter of this thread and all the contributors. I read most of this thread while I was over in Scotland and computerless. I made a mental note that I MUST get Planescape Torment once I'm home. I haven't regretted it yet :)


If that's 5 ways to end the game...
There's also a 6th way, you can choose to become the Silent King for eternity under one of the dialog paths if you had enough charisma to get Stale Mary to reveal a portal to the Silent King's throneroom while you're a prisoner of the dead nations.(other methods of entry result in Hargrimm not being there to talk to you)

I guess the 7th would be killing anyone with essential information before getting it. Pharod and Trias I know cause this, probably Ravel if you never speak a word? Fhjull too I imagine? Lothar might be able to kill you just like the Lady can too, I'm not sure I can't remember trying to fight him.

As for killing Ignus and Vhailor, it doesn't matter if you kill either or both, The Transcendent One will resurrect whoever you were supposed fight and the brief scene continues as if he summoned either one.

Try going through the game solo...it's a sad lonely path but you get some different dialog branches with Ravel, and the conversation with TTO in the endgame is cut differently.

I remember in my solo playthrough, I pressed Pharod on the matter of what was on my corpse. I only wish it could have been one of the regrets I could write down. My TNO felt a lot of guilt because Pharod soon died, and further when I went into his vault I realized he wasn't too wealthy either. But I guess he really did value his books. Also because I didn't have any companions, it became almost entirely about Deionarra for me (well, I don't know what it is about her, almost all my times through the game I can't help but care about her), this incarnation in my solo game started off with minimum int, wis, chr, so I was a clumsy oaf when speaking to Deionarra initially. So I didn't understand her and only got her angry several times. When I found out about through the sensory stones/legacy/her father what happened, it really hurt my NamelessOne.

I only wish there was a way to get the "good" ending for Ignus without going through the game with the alignment that requires harsher measures.

Oh well, that's my fill of ranting.

[Tiffany_Scott]

I have just, moments before typing this, completed Planescape: Torment.

All I can say is...  Wow.  That's one hell of a plot to beat.

I was constantly amazed at how every little detail was important, and nearly everything and everyone was in some way connected with the Broken One.  Just...  Wow.

And the ending...  Man, when I started the game, all I wanted was to know who the Nameless One was.  But by the end, the only thing that mattered was sparing my companions the suffering I brought upon them.  After the countless lives I had destroyed, and the unimaginable wrongs I committed, five lives were probably insignificant.  But damnit, they were all subjected to torment because of me.

Ach, it's amazing how well a good game can tug on the heartstrings.  I just have one last observation to make:

Truly, Regret can change the nature of a man...


Oh, and for those who are interested, TNO ended the game as a level 8 Fighter/10 Thief/26 Mage, with 15 Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity, 25 Intelligence and Wisdom, and 24 Charisma.  225 hitpoints, -3 Armor Class and a whole boatload of spells.

Companions consisted of Morte, Dak'kon, Annah, Fall-From-Grace, and Nordom.

B) It's been easily a couple years since I played Planescape:Torment. I played it just once but I played it all the way through. Start to finish. Over ummm... maybe a week. Not sure. I know Scott got onto me a couple times for not coming to bed soon enough... :P

I loved Fall-From-Grace. Probly cause I'm a Christian and understand the REAL fall from grace we're all faced with... :o

I haven't connected with a guy char in that way either before or since. I don't usually play guy chars in games period--it just feels too eery. Scott (my hubby, duh!! he drug me over here to this forum to look at some thread he got sucked into rofl all I got to say is I'm used to hearing it, I live with him every day and I LIKE his passion, most people are way too uncaring about the important stuff in life anyway I think, and PS honhon don't sweat it too much, because like Abe Lincoln pointed out men always reap what they sow and nations always reap what THEY sow, and if America becomes too timid to stop their own government from obsessing over gay behavior then the voters deserve all the misery they get from it!!) likes to play girl chars in RPG games but I think it's sweet because it's obvious who the girl he's playing really is in his mind... ME!!! :D Hehe we're both like that, I honor him by using his last name at D2 forums and he honors me by playing chars that are like me and I'm glad he finally got me to try a few computer games since we've been married and I'm going offtopic I think.

I cried at the end of Planescape. I remember that. The only time I've ever cried in all my Diablo2 playing is when that mean PK zon killed my MF sorc on East last year when I tried to protect my party from her after she'd killed our barb guy who was treally nice and was tanking monsters really well inside Diablo's house. But it was a DIFFERENT sort of crying. I cried for myself in D2 really, cuz that was a part of me that Zon killed, hundreds of hours of me, tons and tons of memories of helping people and stuff. All gone.

When I cried for Nameless One it was for HIM, and Fall-From-Grace, and the pain of separation caused by people's deaths. It was for friends I knew back in school but never saw any more, that I just sort of lost track of. It was for selflessness, sarcfice, for Jesus telling John and the other disciples "No greater love hath this, than a man lay down his life his friends." It was for the tragedy of nameless realizing that the battle wasn't over. Dear God no, the battle had just started. The battle had just started and THIS time it was for real, no amnesia no puzzlement no delusions or illusions. The battle was now eternal, the battle was forever. It was an odd form of Hell, it WAS hell, and whether he felt he deserved it or not he was stuck with it. He'd made some bad choices, some VERY bad choices in his life. And while he later made some good choices too, there was no grace. No REAL grace, as we Christians know it. There was only Fall-From-Grace, and even she was lost to him now...

I've thought about replaying that game but i never have. I just thought about it again, but I know I won't. That "Torment" was too REAL for me, too powerfull and I want to leave it as I remember it.

I've never seen Scott play it since, either. he played it for awhile--started before I did and kept at it after I stopped. I know he said he made a few chars but that... wow. he never finished it. He never did. He was still goofing around with some weird twink-like process where he killed this one demon over and over and over again, a demon you ancountered pretty early in the game. i remember the demon was blue and he had wings and he walked around the town right out in the open, threading his way easily past all the NPCs because they gave him a WIDE beerth, you know? And Scott was like killing this demon and then saving the game and reloading or something and somehow the demon was alive again and he was basically boosting Nameless's stats and stuff this way, slow and steady, "beating the system" or whatever. I remember being kind of saddened byu this, because usually we connect on playing styles in our games pretty well but not THAT time. For me, Nameless was one guy with one life--one very WEIRD life--and I was living it with him and helping him get it untangled. I forget what my stats and gear and all that stuff was at that end. I remember I never had too hard a time killing stuff so I must have built him ok.

Fall-From-Grace. I remember Falll-From-Grace.

"It's a long walk back to Eden, honey." Scott likes to say that to me sometimes.

Planescape:Torment. Now THAT is a game I recommend everyone play at least once in their lives. THAT was a powerful experience for me. Uniquely powerful, totally the opposite of Diablo2, where we've played Hardcore mode now months and months and months with all kinds of diff chars and if not for the stupid PKers we'd still be having tons of fun with it... :unsure: