the meaning of 9/3, 7/2 amazon speeds

[dta]

Pardon my ignorance again, I often see mention of amazon bow speeds expressed in the form of 2 numbers (fraction?). I recall reading before that it relates to the strafe speed or something.

What exactly does the first number and second number tell? Can someone explain it in more detail why they're trying to reach those fast speeds, sometimes at the cost of other item equipment slots just to gain more speed. And does fast speed (but possibly lower-dmg bow) make up for it?


Another thing, I always have this notion regarding bow speeds. I wonder if it's still correct. That is: there are basically 3 bow types speeds --> -10, 0 and 10 (e.g. composite bow, short war bow, long war bow). Of course there's the oddball short bow which is 5 but just disregard it for now.


If a short war bow has 10% IAS on the bow itself ("of readiness"), would that make it equivalent in speed to the composite bow in all respects (to speed)? What about a long war bow with 20% IAS, does that not make it the equivalent of composite bow in speed? Or is there some other IAS calculation that might make the above results close but not truly equivalent?

What if the % IAS is on another item like gloves? Eg. normal short war bow and 10% IAS gloves --> is the amazon with this as fast as one with composite bow but no IAS gloves?


Thanks.

[Zath]

Strafe, like Fury, Zeal, Fend, Jab, and Dragon Talon all belong to a class of skills that launch multiple auto-targeting attacks at a click. One property that is shared by these skills is that they begin their attack seqeunce with a single attack at your normal attack speed, which is then followed up by a series of faster attacks. When someone describes their Strafe as "9/2" speed for example, they imply their Strafe sequence begins with a 9 frame shot followed by a series of 2 frame shots. If this person were using Strafe against 5 targets, the amount of time he would spend in Strafe lock would then be 9+2+2+2+2=17 frames.

Speed is important because killing efficiency is measured in damage per unit of time. A faster attack speed also gives you better control on the battlefield (you can dodge and shoot more easily for example) and multiplies the effectiveness of any elemental damage you possess.

For some more explanation and additional data, you can check out ZenDragon's Bow Bible, and make sure you read the speed rating and speed table sections.

[Ruvanal]

Strafe, like Fury, Zeal, Fend, Jab, and Dragon Talon all belong to a class of skills that launch multiple auto-targeting attacks at a click. One property that is shared by these skills is that they begin their attack seqeunce with a single attack at your normal attack speed, which is then followed up by a series of faster attacks. ....

Actually the Jab skill is handled in an entirely different way than the other skills that you listed here. While a Jab can inflict more than one hit per attack sequence, it does not use a repetitive loop to deliver the multiple hits like the other skills. If you look in the 1.10beta file monseq.txt you can see how the Jab sequences are set up for the desert Scarabs (seq_scarabjab), act 2 mercs (seq_act2guardjab), Duriel (seq_durieljab) and the Corrupt Rouge Lancers (seq_crlancerjab). The mode and frame detail the animation sequence to use and the event=1 notes where the melee attacks are to take place at. Unfortunately there is not a similar .txt file for the players animation sequences.

[Zath]

The mode and frame detail the animation sequence to use and the event=1 notes where the melee attacks are to take place at.

If I understand that correctly, when a monster uses the Jab skill, the game simply plays a recorded animation sequence with attacks occuring at set intervals?

I have not been a long time Jabber, but I remember at one point players could Jab at a constant speed regardless of IAS or WSM modifiers. It seems that this is no longer the case in v1.09, and probably v1.10 as well though. There have been several threads in the Amazon Basin trying to determine the Jab speed formula, and while no one has been able to pin point it, IAS tables have been produced from experimentation nonetheless. Given that Jab speed is clearly affected by IAS and WSM, perhaps Blizzard has since modified Jab to resemble Zeal/Fury/Fend/Strafe/DTalon now?

Some threads on Jab speeds:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...ST&f=40&t=16344
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...ST&f=39&t=21424
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...ST&f=40&t=10626

[Ruvanal]

The players sequence animations are imbedded in one of the DLLs (same basic format as the monseq.txt file). There appears to be change in the amazons Jab to now have 3 hit checks per attack in 1.10beta compared to the 2 hit checks that is 1.09. The speed up would depend on the values the game will use for the frame incremention base rate and how the character WSM and IAS are applied to that (see the threads discussing the block rates and wereform attack speeds). This adjusted rate would then be applied to the entire animation sequence similar to how blocking, gethit or wereform animations are handled. Most likely they are running into problems because the WSM and IAS are being handled similar to how it is handled for wereforms.

[Brista]

Most likely they are running into problems because the WSM and IAS are being handled similar to how it is handled for wereforms.

Would this mean that in 1.10 Jab is WIAS-only and speeded up as drastically as for the wereform animations at high levels of WIAS?

[dta]

Strafe, like Fury, Zeal, Fend, Jab, and Dragon Talon all belong to a class of skills that launch multiple auto-targeting attacks at a click.

So what is the exact formula to derive the frames/second from the base speed (I think Zen's tables only posts the results?)

Also, how about the formulas for Zeal, Fend, Fury and Dragon Talon? Which level of IAS is needed to achieve a certain IAS (I prefer the formulas rather than tables so I can try computing by myself and also to get an idea of how it works)



Also, is the weapon speed description (in-game, it says "fast" or "very fast" or "slow", etc.) related to the actual frames/second derived from the above formulas? (of course, anything faster than "very fast" would still be "very fast" and anything slower than "very slow" is still listed as "very slow")

[TheDragoon]

It wouldn't mean WIAS-only since that doesn't even apply to Wereform attack speeds at all. If I can figure out how to get at the animation values, I might plug those into my Wereform Attack Speed calculator and see if it matches values for Jab. :)

[TheDragoon]

Forgive my uneducated question, but how exactly could I extract the player sequence animation data? I've been trying to look around for a way to get stuff out of the DLLs but all I've been able to find talks about hex editing them. Is that the only way to get at this information?

EDIT: I think I figured out most of it, so never mind. :)

[dta]

pardon me again, what does "WSM" stand for? ==> Weapon Speed "M"=?

Also, correct me again if I'm wrong, the IAS % for calculation -- is it any different (in calculations) if the IAS modifier occurs on the weapon itself, on a non-weapon (eg. gloves, unique belts) or as a skill (eg. fanaticism, etc.)?

[adeyke]

For most calculations, IAS on the weapon is the same as IAS on other equipment. Whirlwind, however, gains no benefit at all from IAS on non-weapon equipment (OIAS). And weredruids get some benefit from OIAS, but WIAS is more important. These are just some examples. Fanaticism's attack speed boost is different from IAS because it's not affected by the diminishing returns formulas, or something like that. The Weapon Speed Calculator is useful.

[TheDragoon]

But for Wereforms, use my Wereform Speed Calculator as the calculator posted by adeyke doesn't given correct results for Wereforms. :)