Setting up new characters :)

[Nomad25055]

Greetings Lurkers! After many hours of hard work I have finally cleared hell mode with both my mage and warrior with very few problems (Triple Immunes :angry: ).
And I have decided to give 2 new characters a try. The first is the obvious choice, a Rogue. I have never played this character before and would greatly appreciate any information on what sort of setup I should use for this character ;) . And the second choice is a spell casting variant of the warrior i.e. a Turtle Mage. I have heard about this variant but have never attempted to try it until now. Your input on this variant will be greatly appreciated as well. Thank you for taking the time and effort to reply to my posts.

Nomad25055 B)

[Draconis]

For a rogue, basically most use a bow. If they decide to go melee, then they generally use Civerbs Cudgel, which basically triples your damage against "demons" which are mainly all the monsters in hell except lava maws, which is where most people play. Along with this they use a fast block shield, the preferrable one is Stormshield.

For the warrior who uses magic, first off it isn't a tank mage. A tank mage is a sorceror who has high ac and good blocking. A warrior who uses magic as his main attack is a Turtle Mage. Basically you want to max out your magic stat as fast as possible, and get as many +magic adder's as you can find, or your magic to hit will be horrible later in the game. Later in the game you want ~150-160 magic stat to be comfortable in hitting. Basically use the same spells as a mage, except for Flash, which is casted too slowly to do much help.

Also, instead of using golem or anything like that, i'd suggest just finding a nice sword and switching it with whatever +magic weapon you find(preferrably dreamflange) when you need to hit triple immunes.

hf ;)

[SteinHerz]

Greetings,

And the second choice is a spell casting variant of the warrior i.e. a Tank Mage. I have heard about this variant but have never attempted to try it until now. Your input on this variant will be greatly appreciated as well.

"Tank Mage" is a term generally related to a Sorcerer which uses a High-AC setup ( 270+ ), literally a very powerful killing machine.

I believe the playing style you have in mind is better described as a "Turtle Mage" - a Warrior that thinks he's a Tank Mage.

Reading glasses colection, Adria book shopping and Enchanted Shrine hunting will be the basic requirements. As for equipment, generally a High AC Full Plate ( such as an Awesome Full Plate Mail ) toguether with Royal Circlet ( +50 Mana ) either a +AC or +Resist All% Shield ( it frees a slot for a +Mana Jewel ). Jewelry for resistance and the most important, +Magic suffixes and +Mana prefixes.

Dreamflange will be your best "weapon" choice since it grants a +30 Magic Boost and +80 Mana overall, plus a +1 spell level increment.

It's a very viable and effective playing style for Nightmare/Hell and Caves/Hell powergame. Still not very fun :)

Other weapon choice could be a King's Weapon of the Vampires - no superb boost Dreammy may grant to you still mana steal, quite handy. That's how my Warrior leveled up at Caves basically.

Hope that was helpful.

[Nomad25055]

This info is very helpful Thank you. Oh and uh.. sorry about that mix up I meant to say turtle. :P Now that I have some of the info for my turtle mage I would like to know about setting up my rogue. Thanks Lukers.

Nomad25055 B)

[Selby]

Rogues are the most versatile class. Cat's Diablo Page has *the* guides for playing Rogues. My Rogue always went melee after a while due to it being much more versatile and fun (that and you can block ;-) ). Basically anything I or most others could tell you is summed up very nicely here:

http://www.catsdiablopage.com/

Selby

[Nomad25055]

Thanks Selby that link was very helpful.

Nomad25055 B)

[Rhydderch Hael]

... As for equipment, generally a High AC Full Plate ( such as an Awesome Full Plate Mail ) toguether with Royal Circlet ( +50 Mana ) either a +AC or +Resist All% Shield ( it frees a slot for a +Mana Jewel ). Jewelry for resistance and the most important, +Magic suffixes and +Mana prefixes.

Dreamflange will be your best "weapon" choice since it grants a +30 Magic Boost and +80 Mana overall, plus a +1 spell level increment. ...

The Royal Circlet is a natural draw for headgear, but if the Circlet is opted for, then you are limited to shield choice: one with high +Resist All.

Jewel prefixes will deliver only three forms of benefit: Resistances, Mana, or ToHit%. ToHit% isn't a worry here, so now you'd have to opt between an amulet and rings that either give you Resist All or Mana.

Two good Obsidian anythings (one deliver +38 or above, and the other deliver +37 or above) will give you all the Resistances you need.

You can go with a high-AC shield and Royal Circlet, then fill in your Resists with two jewel slots. However, that leaves only one jewel capable of delivering a Mana boost.

Or you can go with one piece of armor delivering that Obsidian resistance ability, ensuring that you need only one jewel to fill in the remainder. This leaves two jewel slots open for Mana, which should deliver a higher net amount of Mana in the end. One point of trouble: you can give up the comparatively high AC that can be found on a shield by opting for an Obsidian shield (and go with the Mana gain of a Royal Circlet); or you can give up the Circlet for an Obsidian Helm of Whatever and resort back to some kickass high-AC shield (Awesom Tower deliver a base AC of 17 or better).

[Rhydderch Hael]

Generally, a Warrior has two defensive options: go for a high Armor Class, or resort to Perfect Blocking with a Shield.

High AC requires two things: good Strength (and the Warrior gets that naturally) and quality armor pieces with high base AC and good AC boosting modifiers (Awesome Plates or Saintly Full Plates, for instance).

Perfect Blocking for a Warrior requires some 100 points of Dexterity beyond what he can attain naturally, and a sturdy shield with high Durability (or Indestructibiity).

In the case of a Magic-casting Turtle Mage, the option to for a high AC is generally the better course than trying for Perfect Blocking. There's one important yet overlooked aspect about magical attacks in the game: the ToHit% of a magic spell attack is determined by the character's Magic statistic, not by the straight ToHit% displayed on the Character screen. A Warrior who goes for low AC and Perfect Blocking can get a large Mana pool by the use of Dragons' rings and amulets, but the ToHit% of those cast spells is not as good as that of a Sorceror or a dedicated Warrior in the Turtle mode.

The only way to get a decent Turtle Mage is through items that have suffixes increasing the Magic stat. A Warrior trying to attain Perfect Blocking has to fill in Dexterity, too, which would only cramp into the Magic addiction the guy is trying to feed. So, a defense option that is filled in by a prefix slot, such as Armor Class, becomes a more reliable option. Body armor and a shield with a high AC base and boosters should be the primary mode of defense. The fellow is being called a Turtle Mage for a reason.

Next big thing: Resistances to enemy magic. Resist All, of course, is the most sought form of elemental protection. Jade and Obsidian (and in very rare form, Emerald) items are the means by which Resistances are met. It would take about three Jade items, two Obsidian items, or a Jade and an Emerald item to fill in the 75% resistance limit. Emerald can only appear on shields and weapons sold by Wirt— that is a rare and specially sought item if you're trying to fill in these Resist needs. However, not even one perfect Emerald (+50% Resist All) will supply all your maximum Resistances. You'd still need a second item to fill in the remainder. That said, it's generally much better to fill in your Resists through two high quality Obsidian items (both delivering +35% Resist All or higher) than through one Emerald shield or weapon.

Question is, where to have them? Three places to get Obsidian: the weapon, the armor, and the jewels.

You have three armor pieces delivering your AC and Resists: the body armor, the shield, and the helm. The body armor can deliver as much as 75 base AC, the shield can deliver 20 AC, and the helm can bring a max of 15 AC. You might see where I'm getting at with this. Of the three armor pieces you can afford giving up an AC boosting stat for an Obsidian prefix, the helmet is the best choice. With an Obsidian helm and one piece of Obsidian jewelry, you will fill most, if not all, of your Resistances. With this route you can opt for high AC armor in your two other pieces (body and shield) and go for two jewels that will fill both Mana and Magic boosts.

A second course is to go for high AC all around, and this case usually means acquiring and wearing the Royal Circlet. The prime attraction of the RC is the stat and Mana boost you'll get. It is a decent item, but it does not offer you good Resists. Your Resistances would then have to be filed elesewhere. This almost invariably means two jewels. Since two Obsidian jewels will supply Resists, this leaves only one jewel slot open for a prefix that offers a straight Mana boost. This is in consideration, of course, of whether or not (and you should) be wielding Dreamflange.

Dreamflange. This mace will, in most Turtle Mage styles, make or break your Warrior as a spellcaster. With Dreamflange in use, you can afford to give up two jewel slots for those Resistances— Dreamflange will supply the defecit Mana instead. But there is another option: a weapon with a +Resist All prefix. Something with Obsidian. Or even Emerald. An Emerald Dagger would go quite a ways, given that this means another jewel or armor slot is freed up to do their best at delivering high AC or high Mana.

There's something to consider here: a Turtle Mage relies on using magical attacks to inflict damage on his enemies. Part of it is through style, but part of it is through simple fact: the weaponry that complements a Turtle Mage the best ain't all that hot as a physical attack weapon. Dreamflange is, in all physical combat terms, no better than the plain-Jane maces you'll scoop up in dungeon level 3. An Emerald or Obsidian weapon isn't going to be much better in a melee attack. A kickass killer wep is not in a Turtle Mage's best interests, so the weapon should at least deliver some strong supporting roles. Best case scenario, the weapon is directly affecting your Magical attacks (Wizardspike or Dreamflange) or offering defensive powers through Resistances.

[Nomad25055]

Thank you for your input Rhydderch Hael but, I have one question for you what about using a Dreamflange helm or maybe some lightforge equipment? These things seem to be a good way to go as far as mages go, but I have not yet found any lightforge items. So I was also wondering where might I be able to obtain lightforge whether it be in the form of a helm or in the form of jewels.

Nomad25055 ;)

[Rhydderch Hael]

A Dreamflange is a Unique Mace weapon. That is how it was written into the game. The Dreamflange name and abilities imparted onto an item other than a mace (such as a helm or rings) is a hacked item created by cheaters. Such items and such practice is definitely not supported by members of the Lurker Lounge, and the universal opinion here is that such hacked items should never be used or contemplated, since they destroy any challenge or fun that would be offered in the game.

The Lightforge is a Unique saber that, unfortunately, only appears in the Single Player version of the game, and any appearance of a Lightforge item (especially if morphed into a helm) in a Multiplayer venue is the product of a cheater. Again, something that is vehemently discouraged here at the Lurker Lounge.

Best course is to play the game with the rules intact-- it'll only further to prove your prowress with the game if you can accomplish amazing things (and you can) using legitimate equipment-- anything that is not hacked.

[Thenryb]

did you ever feel like you were wasting your time trying to post an intelligent response?

[Rhydderch Hael]

Nope.

[Selby]

Lightforge is technically a mace. And it can only appear after all the lvl1 maces in the game have been found in Single Player (theoretically, there has been alot of discussion about whether or not the item will even be stable).

Selby

[Nomad25055]

CURSE ALL OF YOU CHEATING BASTARDS!!!!!! :angry:
I had no idea that these items could only be found in one form each. (Which only proves that I still have more to learn.) And to think all this time i was using these items for my mp mage. After reading your post I promptly deleted this mage, and after doing so I questioned all other equipment I had recieved as gifts from my "friends" on bnet. But before I deleted my other mp character (My warrior) I decided to remove his equipment and find new equipment for him, seeing as I have not used him hardly any since his new equipment was given to me. I have known these people for quite some time and to think that they are just now starting to give me untrustworthy items. :(
I thank you Rhydderch Hael for bringing this horrible fact to my attention. I will no longer take anything from anyone on bnet (except ears I obtain in duels ;) )

Nomad25055 :unsure:

P.S. I am somewhat saddened by the fact that I have not seen any lurkers on bnet. I go to uswest now quite a bit but a bunch of my time is still spent on useast. I believe I have heard that some lurkers hang out in channel dsf 1 but maybe such information would be more reliable coming straight from the horse's mouth.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Proves how long it's been since I played Single Player. I was thinking Lightsaber=saber, and confused it with Lightforge.

[Yogi_Baar]

CURSE ALL OF YOU CHEATING BASTARDS!!!!!!

I don't think cheaters read this forum, but I can understand your anger.

Play as a purist. You can only use items that you found or bought yourself (which is already your intention), and real purists don't even transfer items between characters. IMHO it makes it a wee bit more challenging for melee warriors (mine is still using a high-end meteoric/haste), while the other two classes fare better.

I believe I have heard that some lurkers hang out in channel dsf 1 but maybe such information would be more reliable coming straight from the horse's mouth.

Mr. Ed wasn't real. ;)

[Selby]

Simple. Don't accept items from anyone else. Only exchange goods between characters of your own that find them. That's how I've always played =P

Selby

[Rhydderch Hael]

No problem at all. You have redeemed yourself in the eyes of many by understanding this, and I'm sure you'll find the Lurker support here readily available to you.

[Nomad25055]

Mr. Ed wasn't real?!? :blink: Man and all this time I been askin around trying to find a talking horse. Any way I didn't mean to imply that anyone here cheats. It was directed to cheaters in general. I just thought that I should post this in case someone does take that the wrong way.

Nomad25055 ;)