Have any other Lurkers played Morrowind?

[[wcip]Angel]

For an excellent map of every city, town, village, camp, underground cavern, cave, ancestral tomb, daedric shrine; every single location in MW including the names of all the buildings within a city can be found here:

http://www.m0use.net/~uesp/morrow/map/mw_map.shtml

You can even do a search on parts of a name. Say you type in "Ma" (for Maar Gaan) then every placename which includes the digraph "Ma" will appear. The map is an invaluable source to MW-gaming.

[roguebanshee]

Edit:  Will balance changes take effect retroactively on characters/items (like the .5x Magicka bonus for Dunmer)?

No, you have to start a new game for that to take effect.

[WarLocke]

Aha, I figured out why I was confused about wakim's mod.

The version on TheLys with No-Glo requires Tribunal, but there's no easy way to tell until you try loading it in the data files menu. <_<

Oh well. I got the no-No-Glo version, and it and No-Glo have tons of conflicts listed in TESPCD. I guess I'll look at a few more of the 'effect reducers' before I try merging one in with my Huge Plugin of Doom&reg;. (1.43mb for the .esp and counting, muahahaha...)

Hrmm, might as well ask this while I'm posting: For those with TESPCD experience, I have (another) question. I'm trying to merge Spell Cost Reduction (linked to earlier in this thread) and getting conflicts with wakim's balance plugin. The entries are identical, except for three lines (using the first as example):

BSND poison bolt Ascii 12
HSND poison hit Ascii 11
ASND poison area Ascii 12

I can't tell whether these are trash entries or if wakim removed them intentionally, or what. Bah. :(

[kandrathe]

Never the less, (at least for me) it is true. Since I was getting the "Crash to deskop" problem frequently, I'm painfully aware of the load time. I'm slowly working it into a more stable set up. This software is so fussy about memory, hardware, and software configuration. It is a typical of software (especially written in C or C++) that error checking is omitted. Bethesda should just spend about 6 months focused only on making Morrowind, and I suspect their other titles, bullet proof.

[wakim]

"I got the no-No-Glo version, and it and No-Glo have tons of conflicts..."

"I'm trying to merge Spell Cost Reduction (linked to earlier in this thread) and getting conflicts with wakim's balance plugin. The entries are identical, except for three lines (using the first as example):

BSND poison bolt Ascii 12
HSND poison hit Ascii 11
ASND poison area Ascii 12"

The conflict between WGI and many No-Glo style plugins is that the way most No-Glos work is by changing the color of the Saran-Wrap shimmer to black, ergo it doesn't shimmer. The conflict is that the shimmer color data is stored in the same place as the spell data, so No-Glos and WGI don't get along because WGI changes spell casting cost and No-Glos change the color but both changes share a common err... location, I think it would be appropriately called (if you look at how TESCS manages spell data these words may be more illuminating). Grumblepunk (if I correctly recall his Morrowind forum name) incorporated the black spell shimmer color into WGI, to eliminate the conflict you are experiencing (so that the color changes didn't overwrite the spell changes, or vice versa), and he put out WGI with No-Glo, but I strongly suspect that he had Tribunal installed when he did so because there is no compelling reason for WGI to otherwise be dependent on Tribunal. If you wish, try a glow reducer instead of a No-Glo, as all glow reducers I am aware of are compatible with WGI (since they change the shimmer intensity graphically (through textures or meshes or somesuch thing) rather than alter the raw spell color data), otherwise ya can always set the color of each spell effect to black by hand... As for the Ascii 11s and 12s, I have no idea what that means. One last word on the enchanted item shimmer: considering how egregious the possible abuses of enchanted items are in Morrowind you may wish to leave the objectionable appearing shimmer since it is the only rein on an otherwise obstinate horse.

Mod conflicts, by the way, are generally innocuous for a user, it just means that some mod is changing something that someother mod is also changing - the mod with the most recent file date wins and the older mod gets its changes disregarded. Good luck to ya.

[[wcip]Angel]

Anyone ever run into this thing:

A friend of mine found him east of Dagon Fel.

Does anyone know what he's there for? (quest, villian, etc?)

[roguebanshee]

Angel,Oct 26 2003, 03:08 PM]A friend of mine found him east of Dagon Fel.

Does anyone know what he's there for? (quest, villian, etc?)

Fun. Most of what M'Aiq tells you is a lie or silly story.

[WarLocke]

OK, two more quick questions:

1) Wakim's Game Improvements increases the needed stats to join/advance in factions. In the plugins readme, he lists the basic stats you need to join. My problem here is that my mage-type character is best suited (roleplaying-wise) to House Redoran out of the three houses, but I don't want to pour time into them if I won't be able to experience them fully (due to having to keep my intrinsic spellcasting abilities relatively high). Does anyone know any ballpark figures of what stats I might need to 'finish' their quests with WGI installed?

2) If I don't go with Redoran, the next logical choice for a House would be Telvanni, as their requirements are also my strengths. But their outlook on life doesn't especially jibe with mine. If I were to join them, would I be facing only death-and-destruction, let's-take-more-slaves quests, or would there be a way to adjust the House's policies to a more moderate standing? I'm not really comfortable with slavery. <_<

Ideally, the Nerevarine should be able to show the inhabitants of Vvardenfell that a Cyrodiilic presence can be tolerated and maybe even helpful (Blades, Guild of Mages), but that their history and customs need not be supplanted by the Imperials (Tribunal Temple, House Redoran). Whether I can pull it off or not is a whole 'nother story...

[roguebanshee]

1)
If I'm reading the data correctly the final requirements for Redoran should be :
One of End & Str at 70 and the other at 60
At least one of their skills at 90 and another at 50

2)
The Telvanni outlook on life is more like "Whatever floats your boat". It's very hard to be permanently banished from Telvanni, since all you have to do to get back in good favor is to talk with someone of Mouth rank or higher. Telvanni iirc has less hack'n'slash (or cast'n'blast as the case may be) missions than Redoran but more fedex quests.

I think you may even like Master Aryon since he seems to have the same goals as you.

[WarLocke]

Argh. <_<

With WGI installed, I have to chase bandits all over to kill them. 'Soon as I get them to around half health, they decide to run away, lol. And I'm slow (especially when weighed down by all that great dwemer lewtz), so I can't keep up. Makes Bound Dagger kind of useless if I only get 3-4 whacks out of a cast.

Guess I'll have to invest in better ranged spells (Spark is cheap, but doesn't quite cut the mustard). Maybe a poison DOT or something...

[kandrathe]

If you can get a good weapon to craft, try "cast on strike" paralysis. 2-3 seconds is all you need for an advantage. If you have extra points then add damage health or an elemental attack of your choice. I hadn't thought about using paralysis this way, until it was used on me in one of the shrines.

I've crafted an ebony mace with 3 seconds of paralysis with 5-15 points damage health. Only "Hungers" so far, seem to be immune to spells, but beating the snot out of them while levitating just out of their reach still works well. I'm immune to their fire attacks now, but they were murder for awhile.

I have started a new Assassin/Thief/Mage character with a more jaded world view. I've found some new sinister ways to taunt and kill Ordinators for their armor with no bounty. I use levitate on target 30 seconds and lure them up to about 200 feet (and then the spell wears off), or alternatively if they survive and land in the canal, I use water walking on target and get them to chase me out into a large body of water, then dispel magic and stand on their head (glug, glug, glug...). Or, you can lure them to surface under one of the boats. I think this character will aim at the more malevolent solution to the plot, rather than becoming the Neverine. Must kill the god Vivec...

[WarLocke]

If you can get a good weapon to craft, try "cast on strike" paralysis.

Yeah, that had occured to me (as well as using Absorb Health since my health is so low - one of the mods I'm using sets Health to 3xEndurance, so my health has been 90 since I started, and'll never go over 300 without fortifications), but I don't have the cash to pay an enchanter (spells are costly) and my Enchant skill is only 20 or 21 or so.

I use water walking on target and get them to chase me out into a large body of water, then dispel magic and stand on their head (glug, glug, glug...).

Whoa, that works? You can drown NPCs? Haha! And the levitation bit; I've seen it mentioned on the TES fora, but someone rebutted that NPCs/critters won't chase you into the air even if they have levitation active...

...

Wow, I never run out of questions. So far I've been jotting down the locations of all the caves/tombs/shipwrecks I've been finding using the 'toggle grid' command in the console (the only time I use it), but not actually exploring anything. I read somewhere that the loot in these areas is random and based on your level, so I thought I had better wait until I was a bit further along than level 4 to go exploring. At what point, if any, does the chances of getting 'prime loot' start to stabilize?

P.S.: I actually sat down and read through my whole book collection today ('dunno why I hadn't sooner). 'The Real Barenziah vII' really got me stewed up. Darn lying backstabbing royal Dunmer. :angry:

Edit: Crud, another question! In the Andrano Ancestral Tomb (for the second Blades quest, getting the skull for the orc wizard), there's a dead body lying in the first room you come to. There doesn't seem to be anything special about it (unless you're really hurting for armor), but you can't 'dispose of corpse' it. I wonder if there's a reason for that...

[kandrathe]

Whoa, that works?

Something needs to be above them. You or a boat works. One particular bad dude I led out into the water (I have a ring of water walking). I kept casting drain fatigue and drain endurance until he fainted and then drown.

And the levitation bit; I've seen it mentioned on the TES fora, but someone rebutted that NPCs/critters won't chase you into the air even if they have levitation active...

It is hard to get them to come up at you. You need to be ahead and above them, and still within their site range. If they lose you, they try to go back to their normal path until you can get their attention again. Vivec is great since they start out so high. All you need to do is get them above and beyond the railing.

Edit: Crud, another question! In the Andrano Ancestral Tomb (for the second Blades quest, getting the skull for the orc wizard), there's a dead body lying in the first room you come to. There doesn't seem to be anything special about it (unless you're really hurting for armor), but you can't 'dispose of corpse' it. I wonder if there's a reason for that...

There are some like that. I was stumped as what to do with the dead Hlaalu's body in a cell in the Morag Tong HQ in Balmora as well.

At what point, if any, does the chances of getting 'prime loot' start to stabilize?

IMHO, you may never get rich from the dungeons. I'm level 40 and I still find many barrels and chests with < 20 gold. The occasional locked chest or loot bag will have 100-300. The remains of a fire or frost atronach are worth 100. Most of the time I leave the loot now. The real *treasure* is glass, ebony or daedric weapons and armor. Once you can take on and kill a dremora lord, or a golden saint you are set. They almost always drop a good weapon or armor. There is a merchant in Caldera that can handle up to 5000, and with some shell games and sleeping, more. Seems that if you tap out a merchant, they restock their petty cash at the bank in the morning. This is why early in the game my Assassin is using tricks to kill off Ordinators. They replenish, and they have very expensive armor which you cannot wear (lest you incur their wrath). They are rude to outlanders, easy to anger, mean and at times deserve death. Another easy target, once you have any type of sustained levitate capability is Umbra, south of Suran. He is a warrior only, so you can use arrows or spells whilst safely out of his range.

[Moldran]

While we are speaking of it:
As great as MW is, the economy system is really broken IMO. The way the merchants´ budget limit works is damn stupid.
There are just too many cheap exploits of MW economy (e.g. summoning Golden Saints and killing them for loot).

The character system also sucks in some ways, especially at higher levels. Once you have enough gold (which is easy to get through economy exploits), it is just too damn easy to make your char an expert at any proficiency. The penalties for training skills that do not fit your class should be much higher.
A brilliant thief who is at the same time a powerful fighter and uber-mage - *yawn*

Of course, you do not have to use any "exploits" and can always role-play as you like. But I would still like to see them fixed. The game simply lacks challenges for high-lvl chars IMO.

Moldran

[TriggerHappy]

Yeah, that had occured to me (as well as using Absorb Health since my health is so low

Just some advice:

As a mage, you shouldn't even try to tank, as you won't be later (if you up the difficulty to 100 you can't even from the very start).

Instead develop your conjuration skills and summon creatures to tank for you. They also do pretty good damage.

Instead of trying to chase enemies down, use drain fatigue spells on them (remember, two spells of the same magnitude and time of effect will not stack, but if one of those values changes, the spells *will* stack).

Even better (my personal favourite), create a ranged Damage Strength (Destruction) spell, say 25 STR per shot and use it to "stop" targets in their tracks. Damage, unlike Drain will never recover, so you're now free to summon something to go kill that immobile (and greatly weakened) enemy, practice your Marksman skills or further develop your Destruction magick by finishing the target off with destructive spells.

Later, when your destruction is really high, you can make "Damage 50 STR on target" spells that will stop pretty much anything in two shots.

If you're facing a group of melee attackers, make a *large* area of effect version of the same spell (say 20-30 feet). Now who's gonna say mages aren't powerful in Morrowind B) ?

You have to be very careful though to not cast these spells on Daedra type creatures/NPCs since they have a very high chance to reflect the spell on you. Summons (beef them up with regenerating health, shield effects and Strength/Agility enhancers) are usually a better way to fight Daedra.

Alternately, you can use these spells on Daedra, and ~50% of them will get through, just have Restore Strength spells (Restoration) or potions (Alchemy) handy for the the reflected ones.


If you're fighting spellcasters (and with Wakim's Game Improvements you will be doing that quite abit more than normal), the same idea works on them, only instead of Damaging Strength, you can damage their Intelligence. No intelligence, no magicka points to cast with. Ofcourse Draining Fatigue works as well. Spells fail at low fatigue, but then, if they're on the ground napping, you don't exactly care :D


Levitation is the only thing that'll save you in combat later on. You'll need to levitate, summon some creatures, and then help them out with your own offensive spells. Levitation is particularly useful when fighting Daedra with the damage attribute spells.
If you damage your own strength and become encombered, you won't be able to move, but you *will* remain in the air (until the levitation spell expires). This is alot better than being encumbered on the ground with a Dremora Lord charging you ...

Later on when you have the cash to pay for enchantments, enchant the biggest thing you can find (biggest in terms of enchantment room) and enchant a minion on it. Now you have a minion at your disposal anytime, anywhere, instantly. You'll only be able to fit light to medium strength creatures on the best items in the game, but you'll have an unlimited supply of them.
When you're out of magicka in the middle of a fight, your last magicka restore potion is gone (and you don't want to resort to some insanely unbalancing cheats) and enemies are stil alive and want your head on a pike, you'll thank yourself for having an unlimited army of Lesser Bonewalkers to save the day.

Even if it may take 30 of them to do the job :lol: .

About the Great houses, i find Telvanni the most interesting of the three. Hlaalu is ok, and Redoran is just dull.

[kandrathe]

There are just too many cheap exploits of MW economy (e.g. summoning Golden Saints and killing them for loot).

They seem to be closing those loopholes over time. After patching, you can no longer loot your summons, although you can still trap thier souls. As soon as they die, they disappear. But the biggest problem in the economy, IMHO, is that it seems gold is what is scarce. Merchants carry thousands of dollars in inventory, but many have < 200 gold. This forces you to play tricks like buying a merchants entire stock so you can sell an expensive item, then go sell off all the items you bought to whomever can/will buy them. The only other "exploits" I know of still require skill and effort. Trapping souls into soul gems and selling them for a profit, or finding valuable stuff, usually contraband, and then finding someone who can/will buy it.

You are required to amass quite alot of gold for some quests(I think I spent over 4000 in bribes to get house Hlaalu to vote me Hortator, or 2000 to get the Orc sculptor to build the new temple), yet there are usually no merchants who can afford to buy even a set of Orc Armor.

The character system also sucks in some ways, especially at higher levels. Once you have enough gold (which is easy to get through economy exploits), it is just too damn easy to make your char an expert at any proficiency. The penalties for training skills that do not fit your class should be much higher.
A brilliant thief who is at the same time a powerful fighter and uber-mage - *yawn*

Of course, you do not have to use any "exploits" and can always role-play as you like. But I would still like to see them fixed. The game simply lacks challenges for high-lvl chars IMO.

This part I agree with entirely. I'm still a suxor thief (sneak, security < 30), lame fighter (only my armor and blocking are high from getting hit all the time), uber mage -- so I've much left to look forward to. :)

The only limit I have on my power as a mage (But, I guess it makes some sense now that I'm the Archmage of Vvardenval) is the money it costs for training in a skill and spell crafting. In the beginning I was trying to focus only on magics of Destruction. Later, I needed more of the utility type magics, so I found someone who could train me and raised my Illusion skill 20 points just by spending gold. I'd much rather see a system where you may qualify (from training or action) for advancement in your selected groups of skills (major at full, minor at half, zero for the rest). Once you qualify, at level up you should also choose to invest a fixed amount of skill points. Hey, that sounds familiar.

But, I also have benefited from the flexibility. I started as a Crusader, thinking I would make a "Paladin", a fighter with healing and benificant arts. But, after I joined the mages guild, my character had an epiphany (some would say to the dark side) and changed from his former life as a knight and pursued the life of a Mage. A more formal class change would have also worked, but in essence even though I've joined the Fighters guild, I've only completed the guild advancement tasks from Balmora.

I've yet to even see what Bloodmoon, or Tribunal are like (I can hope they have some adventures for higher level play). If not, then there are some mods (Giants, I've heard) for higher levels. I would think within this game system it wouldn't be too hard to make a new land across the ocean with very nasty creatures. I guess if what you are looking for is a perpetual world where you can play the same character for thousands of hours and never become the demi-god, then this is not your game. I think Morrowind only tries to master leading an adventure through one major plot, with hundreds of small side plots. In that single player, single quest scope it succeeds and gives many hundreds of hours of play. But, I too would like to see any cheap exploits fixed and some better controls over "power".

[WarLocke]

As a mage, you shouldn't even try to tank, as you won't be later (if you up the difficulty to 100 you can't even from the very start).

Yeah, I figure at some point that'll happen. But for now I've left my slider at 0, and have been rolling with the punches. Sometimes the game seems easy (like getting nothing but spider centurions in Arkngthand) and sometimes it kicks my ass (the daedroth in the Gnisis abandoned wizard tower).

Instead develop your conjuration skills and summon creatures to tank for you. They also do pretty good damage.

They don't really seem to. Then again all I have is Ancestral Ghost and Skeletal Minion.

If you're facing a group of melee attackers, make a *large* area of effect version of the same spell (say 20-30 feet). Now who's gonna say mages aren't powerful in Morrowind&nbsp; ?

Holy crud, that would be magicka-intensive. A 20-30 Shock dmg 10ft spell runs 20 magicka, which is a large fraction of my total. Although, dropping a 'Dragon Slave' on a bunch of mooks would be fun. B)

only instead of Damaging Strength, you can damage their Intelligence. No intelligence, no magicka points to cast with.

I thought NPCs "cheated" and had more magicka than they should? They certainly seem to - one of the bandits in Arkngthand hit me with a spell that lowered about 20 stat points, had disintegrate armor too I think, and was doing 35 Frost dmg per second. I haven't even tried making a spell that powerful yet. :blink:

You'll only be able to fit light to medium strength creatures on the best items in the game, but you'll have an unlimited supply of them.

Fear my chitin boots of kwama forager summoning? :D

I'll make a note of that, right alongside the need for Night Eye/Light items, Water Walking, maybe a CE Levitate ring... Ahh, the possibilities.

I think I'm going to hold off on self-enchanting until later though. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to 'delete' items from the game, I don't want to clutter up the gameworld with crap enchantments when there are a good number of things I can just find. Heck, I've yet to have to buy a weapon since I found a firebite dagger near Seyda Neen, got a fireblade for a quest, then found a dwemer jinkblade in the lower portions of Arkngthand...

I am saving any rare/valuable items that I find for when I do start enchanting, though. I have tons of dwemer stuff (a claymore, spear, cuirass, bracer, etc), although I haven't run into any of the glass/ebony/daedric stuff everyone always seems to be talking about.

About the Great houses, i find Telvanni the most interesting of the three.

Yeah, I think I'll go with them. kandrathe's reply eased my fears a bit, and they're definitely the house I'm most suited for gameplay-wise.

[Moldran]

Are you sure that you can no longer loot your summons in the latest version ? I am pretty sure it is still possible. The version readme does not list such a fix. I don't usually do it, but from what I read on the MW forums, it still seems to be possible.
BTW you don't need to use any tricks in order to get sums like 4k. You could still just sell the expensive stuff for less than it is worth. There are several merchants with 3k-5k cash.

The main problem with the economy is that very expensive items are just too frequent and too easy to get for med- and high-lvl chars. By using tricks around the merchants' cash limits (I used to sell/buy a set of ebony arrows as needed - I think my char currently has around 60k gold or something), it is so easy to become super-rich. Especially with merchants who buy for the same price as they are selling.

[kandrathe]

I tried to loot a summoned Golden Saint like 50 times. One time it almost seemed like I had it, but the game crashed as soon as I clicked on the weapon.

I would guess that the plethora of expensive weapons could be easily fixed by changing the frequencies of spawned weapons on some monsters like, Dremora and Golden Saints. Make Ebony and Daedric very, very, very rare. To me some of the common things are over valued, like the Ordinators gear, and Orc Armor.

Several merchants with 3-5K? I'll need to explore more. I've only found the one, who is handily on the guild teleport route.

[Drasca]

and sometimes it kicks my ass (the daedroth in the Gnisis abandoned wizard tower.

LOL ... I'm tempted to call you newbie ;) and tease you about that. You are, but I shouldn't call you one. That ass-kicking is simply an honest, but newbie mistake. The daedroth in Gnisis abandoned tower, believe it or not, is a tame daedroth. A house pet. He'll only attack you if you attack him first-- or the master of the House: the Telvanni Wizard Baladas Demnevanni.

Fear my chitin boots of kwama forager summoning?

Hell yeah! ;) Actually you can enchant clothing to be inveEEencible to physical attacks through wild numbers and sanctuary. That isn't necessary though.

I am saving any rare/valuable items that I find for when I do start enchanting, though. I have tons of dwemer stuff (a claymore, spear, cuirass, bracer, etc), although I haven't run into any of the glass/ebony/daedric stuff everyone always seems to be talking about.

Actually. Don't bother saving. You'll have a full orc/ebony/glass/daedric set soon enough. Unless you *really really* want to save up. Really don't bother. Get a house mod, or pick a base of operations (mages guild bunker/bedroom floor is fine too)-- and just drop stuff. I've made highly decorative floors this way with weapons and armor well placed and aligned on the ground-- as well as stacks full of books that've made entire pseudo walls.

I thought NPCs "cheated" and had more magicka than they should? They certainly seem to - one of the bandits in Arkngthand hit me with a spell that lowered about 20 stat points, had disintegrate armor too I think, and was doing 35 Frost dmg per second. I haven't even tried making a spell that powerful yet.&nbsp;

They're not cheating. They're reading scrolls, which have no mana requirement--just the ability to read. That one should be scroll of elemental burst frost. Scrolls are potentially powerful. As a counter-balance, scrolls are in limited or rare supply. So he didn't cheat, although there are a few (very few) NPCs and creatures (Vivec is technically a creature) that have extremely high mana-- Vivec the God, not the mortal, can hurl that 50pt physical + tri elemental (50 damage pts per element, 200 dmg total with no resistences) spell dang on forever. Correction. He has two spells. Both similar. One is a touch-range spell that costs him 188 spell points. The other is a target ranged spell that costs him 94 spell points. The difference? The touch range one lasts 3x as long, so his "hand of vivec" can do a potential 600 damage alone. He is a God after all. Plus as a god, he has 10,000 spell points (so ~50-100 spell castings total max, more than enough)... and 3,000 health. As a mortal... a lot less. Maybe somewhere around 200 mana and 300 health or somesuch-- he's a weakling as a mortal. Not that Vivec is all *that* tough, because he *is* solo... but nothing you can take on with ease, and without some personal skill, knowledge and/or development of character.

Gah Warlocke, everyone else, do you use chat or IM? Its much easier answering questions through that than the delay of post.