The Matrix Retold

[Doc]

In that last Matrix post, which is entirely to big, I added some comments about The Matrix being just another story about Existentialism. It is, there can be no doubt. I also hinted that this story has been told before. In fact, the two have so much in common, it's spooky. Down right spooky. The Matrix even hints to it's parentage.

Yes, my logic is fractured. Broken beyond repair actually... But this is one area that I honestly feel that I can shine in, so, allow me to make a humoungus fool of my self. Considering I studied philosophy in college **Points to the Doc handle** so I should do ok here...

Through the Looking Glass, AKA, Alice in Wonderland was the first great Existentialist writing. It told a story of what it means to exist, to become self aware, and how to view the universe for what it is. But we are human beings... We are already self aware... WRONG. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Most human beings go through life blissfully unaware of what it means to be human, especially in the modern age. We smother and suffocate our selves in layer upon layer of crap.

Alice really has an interesting story. She falls down a rabbit hole, becomes self aware and gains insight in what it means to exist. She eats one thing, and, becomes larger, eats something else, and becomes smaller. And nothing is farther from the truth. It is even hinted at, but only the most insane or the most gifted genius will realize that Alice never once changed size... Her perception of the universe shrank or expanded based on her perceptions of her self and how she fit into her surroundings. Neo does the same thing to some degree. When Neo flies, he does not move a single inch in case you have not figured it out. The Matrix moves around him. Neo, like Alice, has achieved a sort of hyper awareness of what they perceive as the universe.

So just how deep is the rabbit hole? How many layers does the Matrix have? Does it matter? I strongly suspect I know how the Matrix trilogy will end... I might be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

I find Agent Smith to be one of the most interesting characters, in just the very first movie, with out even seeing the sequel, Agent Smith struck me as being the Queen of Hearts on Crystal Meth. Painting the roses red indeed... After hearing more about what happened in part two, he strikes me as being even more of the same. Anybody with an ounce of sense should be able to figure the rest of the cast out with no difficulty. Personally, I need to see the movie before I say to much.

Alice's story of discovery really should mirror your own. By reading the book, and actually digesting it, you can gain a good understanding of your self. The Disney version of the story on film ain't to bad. Could be better, and would have been better, but a lot of it was left on the cutting room floor. Vital parts. Wont go into that though. All of the foundations of Existentialism can be found in the book, from the three basic ideals, to advanced concepts, to mind blowing revelations that only come with reading it later in life after much in you has changed. Every body should at one point fall down the rabbit hole in their own life... But many wont for what ever reasons they might have. How deep you go is up to, just like it was for Alice and Neo. In another post, a poster mentioned about suddenly getting up and going for a walk to clear their head... And never doing this before. See what I mean about being self aware... Forget about going for a walk, take a tumble down the rabbit hole. Check your logic and reason at the door, as it no longer applies here. Mayhap go to the library and find a certain book.

It's just as simple as Neo choosing which pill to take.

[Guest]

You took a philosphy class with in the last 12 months.


Sounds like you suspect a St Elsewhere ending.

[Doc]

Guess? Hmm... Try taking philosophy back in the 70s. Not a very good guess, but, you win the boobie prize!! Crap... Has it been 30 years already? Sheesh!!

[Occhidiangela]

"Remember, what the Doormouse said: Feed Your Head!"

Existentialism and Alice were all the rage in the psychedelic era, and if you take a few lyrics inspired by Alice and the White Rabbit, you can make some silly little associations by bringing it all up to date, or by leaving it in the Height.

"One pill makes you shorter
And one pill makes you tall."

Cocaine for the first, Viagra for the second.

"And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all"

Aspirin won't get you high, but if you look into Mama's purse, the Valium, which she did NOT give you, will take you there, where Mama goes when she takes

Mother's Little Helper (Hey, the Rolling Stones just Showed up!)

"Send me dead flowers in the morning
Send me dead flowers by the mail
Send me dead flowers at my wedding
And I won't forget to put roses on your grave!"

If you send and or otherwse vend narcotics, (dead flowers = poppies) you will meet a bad end. Back to Alice:

"When men on the Chess board
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom"

Don't drink and drive when you run into that scenario, things are not what they seem.

And as for the Walrus and the Carpenter: Libertarians are not Clams, but Scientologists are! :D

Too much fun. :D

[LemmingofGlory]

Mayhap go to the library and find a certain book.

Libraries?! Good sir, I fart in their general direction! Seriously, after taking two steps inside a library or bookstore it's "Go" time. I am cursed. *sigh* But that is neither here nor there.

I found Project Gutenberg this past summer. All the molded oldies fit to print. Text file format is rather blah, but you can spruce it up to some small degree with Bookshelf (v4.11 expires; v2.71 doesn't).

So, you don't even have to get off your ass to pickup a copy of "Through the Looking Glass." I already have mine.

[o: *LEMMING* :o]

[Doc]

Shush Occhi, you might give some of the kids hanging out here with us old timers the wrong idea... Bad Rogue!!


You are correct my friend. Alice was all about Existentialism long before the 70's though. But it sure gained new meaning.

BTW... Has anybody noticed The Fountainhead... er well I wont go there. The Matrix movie is just another old story given shiny new packaging. Needless to say, Ayn Rand would have liked this movie methinks.

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small
When men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know
When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the dormouse said:
"Feed your head
Feed your head
Feed your head"

Anybody figured out why they use phones in the Matrix yet? Not the technical reasons mind you... Screw those, they are pointless. The Matrix series is not a bunch of techno weenie movies... If you go for the technical angle, you are missing the point. Somebody... I wont say WHO... But those in the know might know... But this somebody carried around a telephone and claimed to be talking to "God in the next reality over" Obscure? Grasping? Perhaps. But the Matrix with out a doubt is NOT just geared for Gen X. Sure, the flashy gun fights are cool. Special effects... Awesome. But the buried content is just fantastic.

[ShadowHM]

I wanted that bookmark back, having lost all to a hard drive crash. Much appreciated. :D

[Occhidiangela]

Oh, crap, no phone for him, he was the guy with the lit lamp running about in daylight, in ancient Greece, looking for an honest man.

I heard from my dad, who lives near DC, that Demosthenes is frequently sighted soemwhere between the Lincoln Memorial and the Capitol building, on the mall, still looking for that honest man 2500 years later! :) How he avoided skin cancer in all that time, what with wearing a toga looking robe thing, is beyond me.

Maybe he too was dipped into the River Styx.

Which makes me wonder: is that where the term Dipstick comes from? DipStyx?

*caffeine overload!*

[Occhidiangela]

Rent the Second Movie. Watch it. It aint bad.

I liked the first one better, and don't care for the Neo Video Game fight with Smith, thought the car chase was too long, but it was still OK. Topping the first was going to be tough.

About the guy with the phone: crap, I am stumped, am going to guess "Waiting for Godot."

Guess I did not read that book, or forgot it if I did.

All I can remember about Atlas Shrugged is:

Gold, Oil, cigarettes with a dollar sign logo, John Galt, and a weapon that used sonic waves to destroy stuff and make goats explode. Ragnar Doneskjold with a bar of gold in a cigarette carton. Dagney Taggert and Hank Riordan getting steamy with one another (way later in the book that most authors would wait these days) over a bracelet of Reardon Metal (Titanium I think) that pisses off Hank's wife and makes Dagney oh so hot for him. I guess ya never know what makes a rich bitch horny until you find out, eh Hank?

That, and of course John Gault's bloody speech that went on and on and on and one until he foamed at the mouth and fell over backwards! Sort of like Ayn Rand, now that one thinks of it.

[Guest]

Ann Rand had no zen.

[Doc]

Hmmm... In reply to the Troll...

Get with the conversation. At least be an interesting troll... Tell me, do you have poofy hair and can you cram a pencil up your arse? Do people rub your belly for good luck? Both of your replies here have fallen flat. First, you made a poor stab in the dark, and now, well, who knows. AYN RAND... Not Ann... Was an Objective Internal Pragmatic Existentialist. When and if you ever go to college you will understand what those big scary words mean. I mentioned nothing about her and Zen. You created that connection in a rather futile attempt to incite some sort of reaction, which you have. So... Get with the program. Say something at least mildly interesting... Put up or shut up. Come on... You can do it... I can almost see that troglodyte furrowed brow bunching up and your hackles rising in anger because you have been exposed... You can do it... Take your best shot. Contribute something of your own if you are some sort of rational being capable of any sort of higher thinking. Do you even know what Zen or Existentialism is? Or do those big words frighten you? Do you feel the need to ridicule those who use such big adult words around you and confuse you? Would you rather we make posts like "See Spot run!" ?

And in reply to Occhi... The telephone was carried by Dr. Timothy Leary Ph.D. He was probably on acid the whole time, which is of course, not surprising. Who knows who he was really talking to. IIRC, it was a little red plastic telephone. Might have been a toy, or, might have been the real thing just unplugged from the wall. My memory is not quite as good as it used to be, but, I think he carried it around with him every where he went for about a whole year or so. I am not sure if you were feeding your head back during that time or not, so you may not know about his activities. I will put nothing past you though, as you are a very naughty rogue.

Yesterday I received the special edition DVDs (3 of them) of the Matrix Reloaded that is available from the movie club that I am a member of. It... was interesting. There are some special features that are available only to the members of said club. I spent from about one o' clock last night to about seven am this morning watching the whole bloody thing. I am now more convinced then ever that I know how this will end. Morpheus should be turning into a butterfly soon, his time as the caterpillar is nearly over. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum had a "Neat Trick" all right. Freeway scene was pretty cool... **Shrugs** I liked the first one better. Good film all things considered. Too much wire fu. Sex scenes were gratitious.

So... Who remembers the glitch in the Matrix in the first movie, indicating that something was about to happen? You know, the scene in the apartment building? How many people spotted the second glitch in what has to be the second layer of the matrix? I am not saying when or where... But it's there. Look for it. Somebody changed the program. Nice touch.

[Pren]

Hmm, funny you mention that. I recall thinking "hey, that reminds me of the 'deja-vu scene" at some point during Reloaded, but I can't remember when it was. I don't have the option of watching the movie again, though. :unsure:

[Guest]

"Tell me, do you have poofy hair and can you cram a pencil up your arse?"

I feel so belittled.


I actually am well versed in both topics. And from a more circumspect view than you seem to have I felt my coment was fitting.(And please dont explain to me how zen isnt something you 'have".)


EDIT: I went back and reread your first post. I still have the same feeling about you(although I dont doubt the chronolgy you listed). You make some real points and then your though desend into grasping gibberish. Oddly your final words ask the reader to do the same.

[Occhidiangela]

It's Ayn Rand, Ghostiger, or should I be sloppy and refer to you as Ghasdigger?

Nah, I'll stick to Ghostiger.

[Guest]

If he had been upset about the misspelling, I would say "Yes you are more cultured and capable than me."

But I think thats the least of what is bothering him about me, in looking at the response he gave.

[WarLocke]

Okay, I'm going to ask this, and I know how it's going to sound, but it's not meant as a personal attack.

Ghostiger, do you get some thrill out of confrontations?

I'm serious, now. I ask because I can remember you taking part in discussions in a mature manner, but your trollish posts seem to outnumber them by a wide margin.

[Doc]

Thank you for actually contributing to the actual conversation. I retract my troll comments. For now.

Watched the Matrix Reloaded for the second time. Noticed a great big fat major plot hole, large enough to sail the USS Ronald Reagan through. Wont say anything yet, hoping it will be somehow repaired in the third part. No need to open mouth and insert foot. Yet.

I have seen the city of Zion before. It's an exact replica of a city in another movie I have seen... But darn it, I can not for the life of me put my finger on what it is. It's a recycled set piece from somewhere. Been smacking my brain around trying to remember.

Deja Vu indeed. Watched the glitch scene again. I do believe there is multiple layers of the Matrix. Find it your self, much more rewarding.

The Architect's words are actually bits and phrases of Sartre's work. Some paraphrasing... But it's amazing how much is an exact repeat. Also, there is truth in what he says, but it's half truth.

The first Matrix is still better. However, both are good fodder for Philosophy Fu.

[Occhidiangela]

I was still in elementary school when Timothy Leary flew the astral plane.

I never did drink electric Kool Aid. Beer and whiskey are fine by me. I am about a decade behind you, Doc, so some of the flower child stuff that you got to experience as a young adult I had to look at through the eyes of a younger guy wondering what was with all of the beads and flowers on the VW vans. :)

Yuppies and hippies are kind of funny: they used to drive VW Vans, now they drive SUV's.

I prefer the VW, personally, just because.

[Guest]

I just rewrote this post before posting it. I had a nice bug sledge hammer attack on the original post er to explain why. But really I bet he a nice a guy and it not worth throwing all these rocks at him. Some people have an ego the size of Texas and I dont feel bad at all when I attack them. Doc just had an idea that struck him cool and posted it.


I will say I have a rea problem with

"But many wont for what ever reasons they might have. How deep you go is up to, just like it was for Alice and Neo. In another post, a poster mentioned about suddenly getting up and going for a walk to clear their head... And never doing this before. See what I mean about being self aware... Forget about going for a walk, take a tumble down the rabbit hole. Check your logic and reason at the door, as it no longer applies here. Mayhap go to the library and find a certain book. "

[Doc]

Allow me to explain.

That was by no means an attack, slam, flame, burn, or anything else. It merely illustrated my point.

Hell, I stumbled around for a long time before I became self aware. We ALL do. It's sort of like opening your eyes after being in the dark for a long time and getting used to the light. Except, we spend the rest of our lives getting acustomed to reality. We open our peepers a little more now and then, and then wait to adjust. This is not a bad thing. However, there are to many people who either refuse to open their eyes, or, are not even aware they CAN open their eyes.

I was in my mid 20s I think, or there abouts. College was almost done for me. I was finally starting to show something for all my years of hard work. Started having more then enough money to get buy for once. I was in Washington state at the time, staying in the Leavenworth Wenatchee area. I was on a vacation of sorts. I decided one day I was pretty much fed up with everything, and I mean everything. So I ended up taking about a 100 mile hike. I had my jacket, a bow, some arrows for bow fishing, and a few supplies in my pockets. Parked my van, and just took off. I spent quite a few days by Spectacle Lake. Hiked a large loop of the Pacific Crest Trail. It was late one night, while laying on a bed of pine twigs, looking up at the stars and the moon that I suddenly became aware of what life was and my part in it. I had a belly full of trout and the smell of pine in my nose and a billion stars over head. Life was no longer a pointless struggle. Nor was it meaningless. Awareness is a scary thing actually. Life changed from that point on. I spent a few more days out on the trail sorting my head, returned to my van, and returned to town and civilized life again.

Civilized life is actually what would make the Matrix Hell work you know. We live, surrounded by computers, tvs, radios, any and all sorts of things that distract us from actually thinking. There is always something to do, usually something we think is important. We either work, play, eat, or sleep. It's not like how it used to be. So many of us has somehow lost our mental focus on what it means to be human. We have lost tribal sense, tradition, and right of passage to define what it means to grow... And live as human beings. There is almost nothing now that shocks us or awakes us into that awareness. People go out and get body piercings and the like in an effort to recapture what little sense of tribal sense they might have. The pain, the sweating, the tears, mostly the pain is a defining moment for them. In teenagers or even young adults, they look at it as some sort of right of passage or "taking it to the next level." This at one time used to be a vital part of the human experience. However, modern day culture has labeled this as barbaric. We have so little to define or seperate us. A lot of our emotional problems stem from this you know. A lot of us in modern society are repressed and sleeping, blissfully unaware, working away in some God awful factory or stuffed into a tiny little cubical. In a sense, we already live in a type of Matrix. And most of us are perfectly happy to be here. Some are not.

The rabbit hole is deep indeed.