07-10-2006, 11:27 PM
Cool thanks for the info Quark. As mentioned I don't know that class or the talents that well. I don't have a lot to comment on as you did an excellent job addressing my questions.
Since the discussion is interesting to me I'll continue on the the improved kidney shot. Again I'm not trying to agrue that it's uber, I'm just trying to find out if it has any place. As to the extra damage from kidney on trash. For a small window of gearing and learning it does. I'm not sure you ever got to experience ZG or AQ20 in a group that had no items at all from MC or better, it can be hard to imagine how much harder the fights are. I think that in what I figure is appropriate gearing for the instances that ZG and AQ20 are both actually harder than MC or BWL. Though MC before any of the ZG or AQ20 gear was in the game and before some of the new crafts and some of the changes to other end game blues may have been more difficult. MC now that ZG and AQ20 gear is in the game and that groups that are new to MC generally have some if not a lot of this gear is nearly as easy as MC when you have a good chunk of MC gear because of course the best stuff for ZG and AQ20 is as good as or better than some of the stuff from MC. But anyway, yes I do think that for a small window of gearing and learning that a rogue that can get you 9% more damage on trash mob while it is under the influence of kidney shot could have a place. That being said it's a small window and I agree with your assessment of the issue. It's mostly a learn to do it better or change the raid composition. And then as soon as you get the better gear that is in that instance the trash becomes simpler and simpler.
I'd love to hear from some of the people who are in Naxx now and have done all of AQ40 if 9% more damage from the raid on chain KS'd mob would good. I hear about the gargoyles in Naxx and how much of a burn they are. Can they be stunned? If so would putting a KS on them that gives your raid 9% more damage be utility from the class you would look for?
It really does feel like much more of a PvP talent, no real argument there, but I'm just looking for more on the topic.
It looks like the review is help PvP and throw maybe a tiny scrap to the PvE raid crowd. I'm just wondering if this might be one of those teeny tiny scraps and it if is a big enough scrap that it woudl be better than what still needs to be sacrificed to get it since it seems pretty clear that you get this talent you still lose DPS as a rogue, but are there any encounters were upping the raid DPS by 9% for a few seconds will still make it worth it.
Really that's why I was hoping expose armor might have been more than just a PvP change to help vs warriors and paladins and a few odd PvE situations (nice to do expose armor with druid tanks on some of the bosses, some odd solo situations). Hoping that the class did get a few more changes to give a different type of raid utility/benefit than just more DPS so I was grasping.
Good to know, sad that they didn't make more PvE builds more viable. Very much in agreement on the issues of scaling vs non scaling damage and the fact that since both are in the game in a few different forms it gets hard to balance. I have to assume that all non scaling talents will have to be continued to be balanced by adding new ranks of them as gear scaling overwhelms the balance. Not the solution I was hoping for.
Since the discussion is interesting to me I'll continue on the the improved kidney shot. Again I'm not trying to agrue that it's uber, I'm just trying to find out if it has any place. As to the extra damage from kidney on trash. For a small window of gearing and learning it does. I'm not sure you ever got to experience ZG or AQ20 in a group that had no items at all from MC or better, it can be hard to imagine how much harder the fights are. I think that in what I figure is appropriate gearing for the instances that ZG and AQ20 are both actually harder than MC or BWL. Though MC before any of the ZG or AQ20 gear was in the game and before some of the new crafts and some of the changes to other end game blues may have been more difficult. MC now that ZG and AQ20 gear is in the game and that groups that are new to MC generally have some if not a lot of this gear is nearly as easy as MC when you have a good chunk of MC gear because of course the best stuff for ZG and AQ20 is as good as or better than some of the stuff from MC. But anyway, yes I do think that for a small window of gearing and learning that a rogue that can get you 9% more damage on trash mob while it is under the influence of kidney shot could have a place. That being said it's a small window and I agree with your assessment of the issue. It's mostly a learn to do it better or change the raid composition. And then as soon as you get the better gear that is in that instance the trash becomes simpler and simpler.
I'd love to hear from some of the people who are in Naxx now and have done all of AQ40 if 9% more damage from the raid on chain KS'd mob would good. I hear about the gargoyles in Naxx and how much of a burn they are. Can they be stunned? If so would putting a KS on them that gives your raid 9% more damage be utility from the class you would look for?
It really does feel like much more of a PvP talent, no real argument there, but I'm just looking for more on the topic.
It looks like the review is help PvP and throw maybe a tiny scrap to the PvE raid crowd. I'm just wondering if this might be one of those teeny tiny scraps and it if is a big enough scrap that it woudl be better than what still needs to be sacrificed to get it since it seems pretty clear that you get this talent you still lose DPS as a rogue, but are there any encounters were upping the raid DPS by 9% for a few seconds will still make it worth it.
Really that's why I was hoping expose armor might have been more than just a PvP change to help vs warriors and paladins and a few odd PvE situations (nice to do expose armor with druid tanks on some of the bosses, some odd solo situations). Hoping that the class did get a few more changes to give a different type of raid utility/benefit than just more DPS so I was grasping.
Good to know, sad that they didn't make more PvE builds more viable. Very much in agreement on the issues of scaling vs non scaling damage and the fact that since both are in the game in a few different forms it gets hard to balance. I have to assume that all non scaling talents will have to be continued to be balanced by adding new ranks of them as gear scaling overwhelms the balance. Not the solution I was hoping for.
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It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.