Shaman Totems vs Paladin Blessings

[Kevin]

You assume that the hunter is only auto-attacking rather than using an aimed-shot, multishot, auto-attack cycle, which ironically means that your hunter isn't using any mana at all. The benefit to an Alliance hunter is greater than your calculations indicate.

Um no. I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming 2 aimed and 1 multi shot every 10 seconds. That is why I'm using mana. That is why I have calculations on the length of mana pools.

Second, comparing to MC, which you've clearly outgrown with your gear, and even BWL which it appears you're outgrowing isn't a good comparison. MC is designed to be difficult for a raid in a mix of blues and tier-1 or flarecore fire resist gear. It's not designed for people walking around in a significant number of tier 2 epics and BWL weapons. I mean, yeah, a person can argue that mages don't benefit from having a larger mana pool or mana regeneration, because we can kill Ragnaros now before the first Son's phase, but I think you would agree that that is a poor argument. The same is true for hunters.

Again no, it feels like you didn't read waht I said at all. My comment was, when on the cutting edge alliance has a bigger advantage. That is what I said. My hunter I'm talking about now has 4 epics from MC, most of the raid is now at 4 epics from MC. MC isn't the cutting edge for us anymore. BWL would be cutting edge for us though we aren't going there, and at this stage I would do less DPS than an alliance hunter becuase the fights would get outside the drink window.

Hunters don't have the burst dps of mages, rogues, or even warriors on short fights. And on long fights, like Twin Emps, C'Thun, or even Nefarian, where hunters ought to excel, Horde hunters have to spend a significant part of their fight drinking while Alliance hunters do not. This shows up in the damage meters on kill fight videos of new bosses. Alliance hunters tend to show up much higher on the damage meter rankings at the end of the same fights than Horde hunters do. People are starting to realize now that it's actually hunters who benefit more from mana regeneration than any other classes, which is why there's a significant push now to put shamans with mana spring in hunter groups rather than healer groups.

I never disagreed with Alliance hunters getting better damage in long fights. But you can in fact figure out th break point based on where the gear is. I don't actually have a Rhok. We've only downed Domo once (we've only been in MC 9 times), but that basic calculations on Mana/5 with that are pretty unisversal. I got a Striker's Mark last run. But you can sit down and look at how much longer an alliance hunter mana pool will last and you sit down and look at how much more damage a horde hunter can do while they still have mana and you can in fact calculate the break point. They do exist.

Yes it is better for the alliance hunter, but not all the time. It isn't a OMG SO MUCH MORE UBER thing that it seemed you made it out to be. I don't have a raiding alliance hunter, but I do get to see them in action. I do have a raiding horde hunter. Things aren't that dire for me, and I know that I do in fact have advantages over alliance hunters. We entered MC horde side in ZG and AQ20 blues, some had a few ZG purples. So we did in fact enter MC at what feel is about L3 for gearing if you look at a 1-10 scale with 1 being just barely good enough to be in there, 5 being good enough that you should be able to put the place on farm and that your gearing level adds no additional challenge, and 10 being yeah whatever let's just 20 man the place. This is because MC was designed before ZG and AQ20 hit. Right now we don't have the FR gear and are a little bit shy on DPS gear for Ragnaros, but we'll get enough gear (DPS gear at least maybe not enough FR) on the one or two more runs we need to get practice in on him anyway.


So yes, as I said. Alliance hunters have it better, though you didn't seem to follow my admittedly rough analysis at all. Going full out I can last at least 110 seconds. If I had alliance buffs I could last 150-170 seconds. That's the difference right now. So the windows for damage are still there. I can still do more damage as horde in those 110 seconds than an alliance hunter can. If we both have to drink once I can still do more damage. The fact is, the only way alliance buffs beat out horde buffs is when I have to drink 1 or more times than an alliance hunter. That happens more and more as you get deeper into raids. That happens more when you are learning. That happens less as the whole raid gets better gear. Alliance wins. I never denied that. I contended with the 9 greater than symbols you used.