Shaman Totems vs Paladin Blessings

[Kevin]

Not quite. Same totems don't stack, fine: the result is a baseline 25 mp5 from one mana spring. That doesn't mean that shaman can't drop Mana Tides end-to-end to get the most out of their cooldowns. Inside five minutes, five shaman dropping five mana tides chained end-to-end generate 5800 mana for the raid, and you don't even lose mana spring regen since one of the shaman with Tide on cooldown has Spring up.

Across five minutes, each caster would get 121 2/3 mp5. It's not as crazy as the numbers in my original post, but it's still three times what Blessing of Wisdom offers. Plus, the three shaman not with Spring or Tide out at any time can throw in Fire Resistance, Healing Stream, Poison Cleansing, whatever.

Right and most people don't disagree with you. See my long post that I was making while you posted this, I don't think mana tide should be anything but a party buff, just like auras. The 121 2/3 mp5 for all casters is too much, even if you consider that for a hunter with Rhok they get around 99 mana/5 when you look at Blessing of Wisdom + Judgement of Wisdom. And that number is smaller if the JoW proc is lower than 50%. I don't know what that number actually is. Casters get even less. Healers get even less than casters.

I'm not going to argue against the 5 shaman with mana tide. While most horde raids don't have 5 shaman with mana tide you have consider that they easily could and what that will do. A 5 minute fight with that much more mana to work with is a huge deal. So as mentioned you don't make a raid wide mana spring totem. Greater Blessings are not automatic you have to train them, it is reasonable to assume that you would have to train raid totems.

You essentially set it up so that some totems are equivalent to blessings and some totems are equivalent to auras.

And no Tranquil Air, yeap (it is nearly impossible to make it a raid version - but with other totems applicable to the whole raid, Horde can tailor their groups to provide Tranquil Air as needed!).

I'm not sure on this. As I said I think you could make a raid waide tranquil air and make it work for all of MC, BWL and what I've seen of AQ40. Sure you likely wouldn't have it on the trash mobs at all, but who cares? Of course leaving it party only and making the groups to take advantage of it, just like the auras is fine. Different mechanics to get the same results. I can live with that.