10-13-2006, 09:39 PM
[quote]What exactly is it about Diablo II that appeals to you so much? I know it may well be the most addictive game ever made, but that hardly makes it a GOOD game (at least from a non-business standpoint). I can spend an hour playing many other games, and feel like I've accomplished something, or get up and feel good about what I did, or any number of other positive factors. But all an hour of Diablo II gives me is some vague sensation that I need to play another hour, find another item, and I always feel like garbage when I turn it off.
Diablo II has exactly one real factor still going for it; nostalgia. I think this is literally the only reason it compares favorably to so many newer games. I probably shouldn't be talking this severely about it, having wasted so much of my time killing hellish minions, but really, what is it that keeps us playing? The game is not even "fun" anymore. When's the last time you laughed while playing, friends aside? Even smiled? Felt satisfied? Ever find a Zod rune? You feel elation for about ten minutes. Then realize you don't really have anyone to tell, and unless you just found 1-5 other ridiculously rare runes, you have nothing to do with it but stick it in a frame and hang it on the wall. And I'm pretty sure that's the ultimate in a treasure hunt; finding the treasure. But ten minutes later, you're back to slogging away, looking for another one. What's the deal?[quote]
Ouch. That's a pretty scathing summary of Diablo II. Before I go any further, let me state for the record "your mileage may vary", and indeed anything further written is not an attempt to persuade you away from your opinion. Instead, I want to defend that there are at least some players out there who play for more than just a feeling of nostalgia - though certainly, there is plenty of nostalgia involved.
I do find a lot of replayability in Diablo II, and do not feel I've exhausted my options despite my many avid years of playing (and I've been playing since its release). The biggest knock against its replayability is the nature of the game. It is a click fest. There is a ton of twitch reaction without much strategy. It's a click fest hack and slash, plain and simple. Every game has a nature to it. And we generally choose games depending on the mood we're in. An in depth RPG, a shallow click fest RPG, a twitch FPS, a raid based MMORPG, etc. This in itself makes replayability poor - once you 'burn out' or 'aren't in the mood' for the type of play, there isn't anything else on the table.
Now, there are games that fight classifications like this. For example, Hitman Bloodlines. In the game you can approach every level as a brute force RPG. A strategic RPG. Or a sneaky spy with limited to no killing. But despite this open nature to the game, I'm still playing Diablo II years later while Hitman is gaining dust on my shelf. But why?
The replayability isn't found in the nature of the game. For myself personally, it is the many different combinations of gameplay style/point distribution/found items. I'm still coming up with new ways to perfect a character, new items to try out, different ways of approaching groups/bosses/monsters. Not to forget, the random level generation keeps the game from being the same thing over and over again. You're earlier point about Maphack is fair, though slightly misguided. The popularity of maphack doesn't prove people hate maps, as much as it proves people always want to get from point a to point b in the quickest amount of time. Its a psychological point, not a point about poor game design.
With that said, it doesn't break outside of its own nature. And if you aren't in the mood for it, if you've burnt out on its genre nitch, there really isn't much else to do in it. No matter what you're always killing demon baddies in a twitchy hack and slash. But the ways in which you can do it and develop a character are rather inumerable.
Cheers,
Munk
Ps. I'm not actually that far from your point of view. I (now) play Diablo II in single player only. I started new this summer, use Plug-Y to share items I've found between characters, and have enabled realm only runes. The goals of people on battle.net have perverted the original goals of the game itself. They only care about rushing, the best items, and the highest level. With these goals in mind, the abovementioned "depth" of the game is completely lost and the game devolves into something very similar to what you described.
Diablo II has exactly one real factor still going for it; nostalgia. I think this is literally the only reason it compares favorably to so many newer games. I probably shouldn't be talking this severely about it, having wasted so much of my time killing hellish minions, but really, what is it that keeps us playing? The game is not even "fun" anymore. When's the last time you laughed while playing, friends aside? Even smiled? Felt satisfied? Ever find a Zod rune? You feel elation for about ten minutes. Then realize you don't really have anyone to tell, and unless you just found 1-5 other ridiculously rare runes, you have nothing to do with it but stick it in a frame and hang it on the wall. And I'm pretty sure that's the ultimate in a treasure hunt; finding the treasure. But ten minutes later, you're back to slogging away, looking for another one. What's the deal?[quote]
Ouch. That's a pretty scathing summary of Diablo II. Before I go any further, let me state for the record "your mileage may vary", and indeed anything further written is not an attempt to persuade you away from your opinion. Instead, I want to defend that there are at least some players out there who play for more than just a feeling of nostalgia - though certainly, there is plenty of nostalgia involved.
I do find a lot of replayability in Diablo II, and do not feel I've exhausted my options despite my many avid years of playing (and I've been playing since its release). The biggest knock against its replayability is the nature of the game. It is a click fest. There is a ton of twitch reaction without much strategy. It's a click fest hack and slash, plain and simple. Every game has a nature to it. And we generally choose games depending on the mood we're in. An in depth RPG, a shallow click fest RPG, a twitch FPS, a raid based MMORPG, etc. This in itself makes replayability poor - once you 'burn out' or 'aren't in the mood' for the type of play, there isn't anything else on the table.
Now, there are games that fight classifications like this. For example, Hitman Bloodlines. In the game you can approach every level as a brute force RPG. A strategic RPG. Or a sneaky spy with limited to no killing. But despite this open nature to the game, I'm still playing Diablo II years later while Hitman is gaining dust on my shelf. But why?
The replayability isn't found in the nature of the game. For myself personally, it is the many different combinations of gameplay style/point distribution/found items. I'm still coming up with new ways to perfect a character, new items to try out, different ways of approaching groups/bosses/monsters. Not to forget, the random level generation keeps the game from being the same thing over and over again. You're earlier point about Maphack is fair, though slightly misguided. The popularity of maphack doesn't prove people hate maps, as much as it proves people always want to get from point a to point b in the quickest amount of time. Its a psychological point, not a point about poor game design.
With that said, it doesn't break outside of its own nature. And if you aren't in the mood for it, if you've burnt out on its genre nitch, there really isn't much else to do in it. No matter what you're always killing demon baddies in a twitchy hack and slash. But the ways in which you can do it and develop a character are rather inumerable.
Cheers,
Munk
Ps. I'm not actually that far from your point of view. I (now) play Diablo II in single player only. I started new this summer, use Plug-Y to share items I've found between characters, and have enabled realm only runes. The goals of people on battle.net have perverted the original goals of the game itself. They only care about rushing, the best items, and the highest level. With these goals in mind, the abovementioned "depth" of the game is completely lost and the game devolves into something very similar to what you described.