May News/Discussions

[Kevin]

From the info I've seen (which should not be taken as any more reliable than a blog...:rolleyes:) my best guess is that, e.g., the 10 man might drop 2 ilvl 200 epics, and then the 25 man would drop 5 225 ilvl epics. Thus, each raid is gaining ~20% of the member max (10/25) in drops, but the larger raid is going to be receiving slightly higher ilvl stuff for the challenge of cat-herding 25 people.

Peace,
~FragB)

Yeah that is what I've gathered as well and that the 2nd tier of 10 man will be dropping ilvl 225 (or whatever the first tier of 25 man was dropping). I don't actually have a problem with this either.

I was just wondering if I really did miss Skans point when I asked my question. I understand the powergamer mentality of optimization. I'm not that type of player but it does factor in. Everything else being equal I tend to go for the biggest gain when making choices. But for me social factors and other things tend to get a lot more weight than just what the gameplay itself has to offer. If the gameplay was a bigger factor I wouldn't be playing WoW anymore because honestly the gameplay is still relatively simple and I can get more challenge from several other games that I have. But WoW still offers stuff that I value that I can't easily get from other games.

All you need is a 5:2 ratio on loot drops and the same loot table to keep them even. If you assume the difficulty is the same between the 10 and 25 man on the gameplay level will that still have the power raiders not doing 25 man content? Is the social aspect that much. See I do still like 25 mans for social reasons. It's different than what I get on 10 mans but I do want it at times.

I don't mind that 25 mans offer bigger rewards. The issue with 25 mans is honestly do you know 24 other people that you always like to be around? Do you know 9? Do you know 4? It's not that the gameplay of the 25 mans isn't fun in and of itself. But you do have to play with others that aren't as fun as you might like. See I think Skan was saying this too. 25 man gameplay is not inherently unfun the overhead is. Should you get the extra joy of better loot for those extra headaches? Yeah I think you should. Should others who don't want to deal with those extra headaches be locked out of the content? No they shouldn't.

I'm fine with 25 mans getting extra stuff. As mentioned I like the idea of 10 and 25 man versions. I don't think 25's will die but I do think you'll see less guilds actively trying to stay in them and I do think that you might end up with more people in those guilds that really prefer the 25 man experience and aren't just there because it's the only way they can progress.

The problem with different loot tables though is that sometimes and ilvl 200 item might be better than an ilvl 225 because of how the budget was spent. I actually think if Blizzard feels they want to have lower ilvls and if they want people playing the content level that the person prefers and to avoid farming something they don't want just to get that best item and that if they do want to provide a little extra to those that they may just want to simple design the loot set and then just drop the ilvl down and shrink the stats a bit. The 25 man version would always be better then but will it be enough better to really annoy the players that much? Losing 5 stam, 2 agi, 3 AP, and 2 hit rating is clearly a worse item for a rogue but are you going to really feel that the extra work of a 25 man is worth it to get that much of an upgrade? Some might, some might not. I don't know. And then if you get in the 25 man and the same item drops it will still be an upgrade for you, just not as big.

Yeah it still leaves a clear 5 - 10 - 25 man path, but I'm OK with that. 25 mans will always require more effort to make work but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. 10 mans require more effort than 5 mans. Even if the content is the same difficulty. But I don't want people that really prefer 25 mans feeling they need to farm a 10 man (or even an old 25 man like with the DST) to get an upgrade. I don't want people that prefer 10 mans to feel that some super itemized item will never be available to them. At least they'll get something pretty darn close. I don't want the power gamers to not have something that is clearing better for them to powergame for. They pay their monthly fee, if they should have that carrot to chase.

So I wasn't advocating total equal loot. I do advocate difficult 10 mans though the first tier of raids, and I do like 3 or 4 tiers, should be easier but same for the 25 mans. I do advocate equivalent loot. I feel look should be balanced around how hard it is to get and that includes the non in game aspects like organization. MgT loot I feel should be better than Shattered Halls loot because MgT is harder to finish. I'm fine with stuff like that. I also don't mind a few mostly pinatas to help smooth gearing curves and get late adopters caught up a bit in case they want to transition.

Finally I feel Blizzard recognizes the end of life is coming to WoW. Scaling back and making things easier to get for what is probably going to be a shrinking player base by the end of the expansion life cycle isn't a bad idea.