Mists of Pandaria discussion

[Concillian]

Personally, I hope the eventual abilities will feel very equal, but I honestly doubt it. (For example, in the Warrior talent tree, the level 90 ability I choose will be Shockwave for Protection, and Avatar for Fury, if nothing changes.)

Did you look at warrior tier 2? The "self healing" tier?

There's second wind (the "PvP" healing option).
Then for PvE it's victory rush has no requirement to activate, but on a 30 second cooldown and with a 20 rage cost or enraged regen (unchanged from current).

ER is 30% heal over 10 seconds, a slow HOT... on a *3 minute* cooldown that requires saving berserker rage so you can be sure you're enraged when you need to use it.

VR is 20% heal (can be glyphed to 30% now, unsure if that will remain) INSTANT ... on a 30 second cooldown. That all you need to activate it is 20 rage.

Unless 20 rage is SUPER SUPER valuable, I don't see many people choosing enraged regen.
All those differences mean a lot 3 mintues vs. 30 seconds... HUGE
Instant vs. HOT pretty big thing too, instant is way better than HOT.
30% vs 20%? Well I think this is offset by instant vs. HOT. If you can glyph for 30% on VR then there may be more merit.

Also putting shockwave on the level 90 tier sucks. Shockwave is most useful in 5 mans, where it works as active mitigation (stun) or an interrupt, or AoE threat or sometimes all of the above. It's so nice to have in a 5 man, and we're going to be stuck without it for much of the time that 5 mans will be very relevant content.

Avatar is potentially significantly more useful as a raiding tank, so if you optimize for raids, then shockwave becomes kinda this lame duck talent that has a very limited window of usefulness as the "5-man heroic" talent.

They're going to have to add some significant tanking downside to Avatar to keep raid tanks from taking it. Tank DPS isn't absolutely critical, but DPS is DPS.