Rogue 1.12 Preview
#38
Quote:2. Blizzard needs to look at dps warriors and see how they relate to rogues. If fragile rogues and plate-wearing dps warriors (who can throw on a shield on a moment's notice) can do the same amount of damage, that's a design flaw. I think the problem lies with the warrior class, though, rather than with the rogue class.

That's the thing, though. With the Mage review, many mages are now at that same point. They're the 2nd most deserving class for pure DPS, yes, but not the first. So now that's two classes that are ~= to a Rogue in DPS, yet both provide much more to a raid.

Tseric said a few months ago that they're looking at Rage generation (where the warrior vs rogue debate really begins to fall apart), today he say's they're not changing Rage.

Rogues themselves may have enough DPS, but a Rogue review cannot be complete unless we serve a function in raids. That means either some sort of utility (which Drysc promised then said "oops"), or superior (not equal) dps.

Naxx may be better, but excuse me while I'm skeptical. Onyxia used to be vulnerable to Mind Numbing Poison. She no longer is, and the GMs swear she's never been. Yauj is vulnerable to Curse of Tongues, but not Mind Numbing Poison. That's rogue utility.

Weapon Expertise is a quick-fix to a glaring problem in itemization, while helping Rogue raid-boss DPS and not affecting PvP DPS. Yet they're making it only available to one (three builds) playstyle: Combat Swords (Maces/Fists). For a Dagger rogue to get it, they must sacrifice Lethality as it stands. One of the 3 talents that everyone says get it: Lethality, Improved Backstab, and Opportunity. (Sidenote: there's actually a 4th/5th, the little mentioned Relentless Strikes and its required Ruthlessness. A Rogue without Relentless Strikes simply can't compare to a rogue with one, no matter the spec). They took a very minor issue (Dagger rogues forced to tri-spec) and blew it out of the water by making Combat even more of a requirement.

Make no mistake, Weapon Expertise by itself may solve my DPS concerns. Weapon Skill is that powerful. But Seal Fate can't possibly grab it (and doesn't scale well enough anyway, especially without Rupture changing), while Combat Daggers is going to have to sacrifice some of their best talents for it. Thus, you have only Combat Swords left, and the easiest rogue build becomes the most powerful.

Long ago I said the only sword that would ever make me spec out of daggers was Thunderfury. If this review goes in as is, that either means I'll be surpassed by my own class or forced to eat my words and respec to swords. Aged Core Leather Gloves can hold this off for a bit, but they can only last so long. They were my first epic and they're by far my lowest ilvl epic. Yet if something isn't changed I simply can't replace them. Mugger's Belt is even worse. I'm actually glad I never got them, because I'd be constantly debating wearing an ilvl 62 rare item over my set of epic belts.
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Messages In This Thread
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-03-2006, 01:40 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-03-2006, 04:43 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-03-2006, 05:18 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Watto44 - 07-03-2006, 06:47 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Rinnhart - 07-03-2006, 06:53 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Watto44 - 07-03-2006, 07:48 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by lfd - 07-03-2006, 10:17 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Watto44 - 07-03-2006, 12:06 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-03-2006, 12:46 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-03-2006, 01:04 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Rinnhart - 07-03-2006, 02:02 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-03-2006, 02:35 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Rinnhart - 07-03-2006, 04:47 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Artega - 07-03-2006, 09:29 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-04-2006, 12:10 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Rinnhart - 07-04-2006, 01:44 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-04-2006, 04:19 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Mavfin - 07-04-2006, 03:46 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-04-2006, 04:44 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Artega - 07-05-2006, 09:29 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-05-2006, 03:00 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Xame - 07-05-2006, 07:15 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-05-2006, 08:35 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Xame - 07-06-2006, 12:04 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-06-2006, 12:26 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-06-2006, 03:05 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by lemekim - 07-06-2006, 04:48 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-06-2006, 05:17 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-06-2006, 05:41 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-06-2006, 06:33 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-06-2006, 07:09 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by lemekim - 07-06-2006, 09:19 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-06-2006, 11:23 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Concillian - 07-07-2006, 12:30 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by NotSoDarklord - 07-07-2006, 09:33 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 06:22 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 06:54 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by oldmandennis - 07-10-2006, 06:55 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 07:48 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-10-2006, 08:02 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by vor_lord - 07-10-2006, 08:20 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 09:09 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Derek - 07-10-2006, 10:25 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-10-2006, 11:27 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-10-2006, 11:50 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-11-2006, 07:42 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-11-2006, 02:33 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-11-2006, 03:21 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-11-2006, 03:37 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-11-2006, 07:39 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-11-2006, 08:22 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-11-2006, 08:45 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-11-2006, 09:02 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-12-2006, 01:46 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Warlock - 07-12-2006, 02:00 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-12-2006, 02:34 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Warlock - 07-12-2006, 02:55 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Mirajj - 07-12-2006, 03:02 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by oldmandennis - 07-12-2006, 06:40 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Skandranon - 07-12-2006, 06:55 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-12-2006, 07:39 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by oldmandennis - 07-12-2006, 08:13 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Skandranon - 07-12-2006, 04:05 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Derek - 07-12-2006, 05:43 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-12-2006, 06:37 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-12-2006, 08:12 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Artega - 07-13-2006, 01:27 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Professor Frink - 07-13-2006, 02:53 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by oldmandennis - 07-13-2006, 02:26 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 07-13-2006, 03:46 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 07-13-2006, 06:04 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Lissa - 07-13-2006, 06:56 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by MongoJerry - 07-14-2006, 08:46 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 08-05-2006, 09:54 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 08-05-2006, 10:31 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 08-08-2006, 01:40 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Kevin - 08-08-2006, 04:23 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Concillian - 08-08-2006, 10:14 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Quark - 08-10-2006, 11:58 AM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by oldmandennis - 08-10-2006, 02:24 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by Concillian - 08-10-2006, 09:33 PM
Rogue 1.12 Preview - by vor_lord - 08-10-2006, 10:39 PM

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