PvP, Honor, Faction and BGs

[Watto44]

Hmm, looks like we've run off on a bit of a tangent. Sorry about that. In response to the pvp stuff:

First off, I for one don't miss the large scale "world pvp".

I certainly don't miss the TM/SS lagfest, but there are things I miss about world pvp. Some of my fondest memories of WoW are world PvP stuff. Holding the tower in Southshore against hideous odds. Our server's first raid into Ironforge where the entire 40 man raid wiped before the city had finished loading. Trying to take down Jania Proudmore (spelling?) and wiping because we didn't notice a civilian that spawned a ton of guards. (Hehe, if you're ever looking for a laugh, run 40 odd people past a civilian. Funny stuff.) Three man guild raids on Astranaar or Duskwood. (Suicide but great fun.) What was great about this was there was no motive behind it except to have some fun. This was very much the "toy" aspec that savaughn talked about: a way to create your own fun in the game.

Battlegrounds are great, don't get me wrong, and I do have fond memories of some battleground moments. I think they're well done and a lot of fun, but they are static in terms of goals. What was fun about world pvp was that the goals were fluid and you could create your own.

As for the honor system itself - as it relates to pvp as opposed to character progression - my gripe is that it introduced the grind into an element of play that was previously purely about the fun. Despite my best intentions to keep pvping for the pure joy of it, it has become difficult to seperate the honor grind and fun aspects of pvp. It is very difficult for me to play something where I can progress my character and not get frustraited when I hit the wall, particularly when that wall falls well short of - what I thought to be - realistic goals. (In my case, the blue pvp set.)

Which brings us to the difficulties of the casual gamer. Why do I hit the wall? It doesn't seem to be because I'm lacking in skills. While I'm far from the best pvper on my server, and far from being the best druid, I do alright and hold my own with some of the big dogs. No, it's nothing to do with skill level, I hit the wall because of time issues. In a sense character progression through pvp is closed to me. I've gone as far as I can go. While this has been something of a relief - I no longer feel I have to grind for honor - it's also very, very disappointing as I've fallen well short of the goals I had set and there's nothing I can do to change that.

As for the casual dilemma in general, the real problem is one of progression. In order for someone to enjoy the game they have to feel empowered to progress their character. For a casual gamer, there is also a wall that they hit, generally around the time that they've finished collecting their tier 0 set. At that point, there is little they can do to progress their character further, and they become disempowered to act in the game world. It is a very frustraiting feeling.

So the problem is how do you give casual gamers those two things, empowerment (geez, is that even a word?) and progress? I feel that there are templates already in the game that would let the designers do this. One that's already been mentioned is crafting. Hide of the Wild is a good example. It gives casual gamers the opportunity to go out and farm for things that will progress their character, it makes you feel as if your actions matter within the game world, as they're going to progress your character.

Another is quests. While this was mentioned already, I thought I'd throw in a couple of examples. The first one is Battle of Darrowshire. This is a great quest line for a casual gamer. They can go out and complete the long chain pretty much solo. Each step in the chain doesn't take that long, but each step has meaning because you are working towards a goal. While you still need to find a group to complete the quest, it gives casual gamers an opportunity to progress on their own. Another example of the quest template is the hunter epic quest for lok'thingy. While this requires a drop from a 40 man instance, the quest itself is suitably epic and, interestingly, has to be done solo. I don't feel that either of these quests, nor their rewards, "cheapen" the accomplishments of players who are grinding in various instances, and would love to see more of this sort of stuff. A suitably epic quest chain for a suitably epic reward. (Note: I know that the quest rewards from Battle for Darrowshire aren't epic, but apply the logic to the tier 0 sets. Does this quest reward cheapen the efforts of people who grind in scholo/strat/et al.?)

At the end of the day, there's nothing that says an "epic" equates with "40 man raid", as I'm sure any hunter will tell you. :)

(Woo, sorry for another long post. Arts Degree for the loss. :blush: )