Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin
#51
Occhidiangela,Sep 6 2005, 02:46 PM Wrote:Your cause and effect chain of history is an interesting take on the topic of urban blight, both material and spiritual, but I'll toss a few grounders your way.

1.  Some people do get out

2.  The crime of the civil rights era and the great society is that, for one reason or another, the urban schools were left, far too often, to rot.  The voucher system was a cost effective way of doing even less for public schools, whose rot was, I guess, diagnosed as terminal.  So, as a society, we gave up.  That, after the aims and goals of the civil rights initiatives post WW-II is the profound human tragedy.

3.  A ghetto is a state of mind.  Robert Kaplan found very poor people in Turkey when he traveled there, but their inner pride was evidenced in how clean they kept their very meagre housing. 

4.  Swamp castle and New Orleans.  Somehow, for a place that was infamous for the occasional display of huge tracts of land, the problem of building another castle on that swamp will boil down to a matter of human spirit. 

5.  This ain't just New Orleans' problem, in the big scheme of things.  The profound economic impact of New Orleans not being up 100% as a fuel terminal and port of embarcation for all kinds of products, from the heartland's,won't be felt for another few months.  But it will be felt.

New Orleans was/is no sleepy little seaside town, she's a major commercial center.

Occhi
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Of course people get out. Takes WILL. And there is a whole system there to break your will and make you conform. And be submissive. Some people refuse to break. The system can not hold them.

I did a lot of growing up as a boy in Nawlins. So I know what it is like there. That said, ghettos are pretty much all the same, no matter where you go.

Like you said. Ghetto is a frame of mind. It's an oubliette. A place where people are thrown and forgotten. And for two shiny nickles, I can tell you who created this elaborate structure, this system which is self perpetuating. You might not like it, but you can't deny it. It's still the same old same old. Slavery.

Let me give you an example. Let's say, for a moment, that one of these average sorts gets it in their head to get a job and try and do something with their life. Let's say they live in Section 8 housing. Goverment assisted. Rent is based on income, which is usually a welfare check of some sort. Now, this person goes out and gets a job. Yay! They have a job. What happens now? Their Section 8 voucher gets yanked. That's what. And their welfare dries up. So now they have to pay "Fair Market Value" rent on their crappy little apartment. Which is an artificially inflated gross obcene number. And it's usually more than they can make in a single month working a 39 hour week at a minimum wage job and still get by. So they get a 30 day eviction notice. Have got to move out. Ever tried to hold down a job while you were homeless? Damn near impossible with out a lot of outside help. Most folk, especially these folk, get fired on the spot. No address, no job. So, this person is now jobless, homeless, with no income what so ever. Even worse than when they started. So, it's back down to the welfare office to reapply, it takes a while to get the checks started, and they have to live in a homeless shelter or a public assistance house while they wait a couple of years for an apartment to open up in public project housing under Section 8. It actually costs a whole lot more to get somebody back on welfare then it does to keep them on welfare. So, there is an elaborate system created to keep people still and hold them in place. It is very, very difficult to get out. Most people have no idea just how hard it is. It's grossly unfair. Ask a lot of these folk about jobs and they flinch. They know better to get it in to their mind to "get all uppity." Many of them have been punished for wanting to make something of themselves. And that's what it is. Grossly unfair inhumane treatment. Punishment. And forgive me for saying it, most of white America will NEVER understand what it's like to live under this sort of system. And it passes on to the children. And now several generations later, there is a crushing weight in place.

It's ugly, it's horribly racist, and it's one of America's nastiest bits of dirt that is constantly being swept under the rug.

All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.

"Isn't this where...."
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Messages In This Thread
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-02-2005, 06:57 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-02-2005, 07:09 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-02-2005, 08:44 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-02-2005, 10:06 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-02-2005, 11:13 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-03-2005, 04:08 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-03-2005, 06:57 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by --Pete - 09-03-2005, 04:12 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whathuh - 09-03-2005, 04:41 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Jester - 09-03-2005, 08:29 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by --Pete - 09-03-2005, 11:14 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-04-2005, 01:16 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whathuh - 09-04-2005, 01:47 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-04-2005, 02:05 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-04-2005, 02:58 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Jester - 09-04-2005, 05:26 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-04-2005, 06:48 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-04-2005, 06:51 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by --Pete - 09-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-05-2005, 07:14 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-05-2005, 07:18 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Brother Laz - 09-05-2005, 05:24 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-05-2005, 08:16 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whathuh - 09-05-2005, 08:47 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-05-2005, 11:20 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-05-2005, 11:59 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-06-2005, 12:03 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by eppie - 09-06-2005, 10:09 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by eppie - 09-06-2005, 10:17 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-06-2005, 12:20 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-06-2005, 02:34 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 04:14 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-06-2005, 04:21 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 04:26 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-06-2005, 04:27 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by eppie - 09-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by eppie - 09-06-2005, 04:33 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 04:37 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-06-2005, 05:06 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-06-2005, 06:14 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-06-2005, 07:30 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-06-2005, 07:33 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 07:40 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 08:12 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-06-2005, 08:24 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-06-2005, 09:18 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-07-2005, 05:56 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-07-2005, 07:31 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Olon97 - 09-07-2005, 10:07 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-07-2005, 10:51 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-07-2005, 10:58 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-07-2005, 11:21 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Olon97 - 09-08-2005, 01:20 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-09-2005, 08:01 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-09-2005, 08:08 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-09-2005, 12:48 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-09-2005, 06:40 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by wundergore - 09-09-2005, 07:15 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-09-2005, 07:46 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-09-2005, 10:33 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-09-2005, 10:38 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-09-2005, 11:08 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-10-2005, 12:12 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-10-2005, 04:58 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-10-2005, 05:01 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-10-2005, 07:49 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-10-2005, 10:48 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-10-2005, 10:49 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-10-2005, 11:05 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-10-2005, 11:16 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-10-2005, 11:24 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-11-2005, 12:07 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-11-2005, 12:27 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-11-2005, 12:36 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-11-2005, 12:41 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-11-2005, 12:58 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-11-2005, 01:08 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-11-2005, 01:10 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-11-2005, 01:11 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-11-2005, 01:36 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-11-2005, 03:46 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-12-2005, 01:58 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 02:30 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-12-2005, 02:38 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 04:00 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Rhydderch Hael - 09-12-2005, 04:53 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 04:56 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Chaerophon - 09-12-2005, 05:06 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-12-2005, 06:27 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Brother Laz - 09-12-2005, 12:23 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by ShadowHM - 09-12-2005, 03:10 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-12-2005, 03:18 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 04:48 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 04:51 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-12-2005, 05:59 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-12-2005, 06:07 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Guest - 09-12-2005, 06:11 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-12-2005, 06:29 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-12-2005, 06:34 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-12-2005, 07:13 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-12-2005, 07:53 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by ShadowHM - 09-12-2005, 07:55 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-12-2005, 07:59 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-12-2005, 08:52 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-12-2005, 08:59 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Roland - 09-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Ninjadruid - 09-13-2005, 02:08 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-13-2005, 02:29 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-13-2005, 03:13 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-13-2005, 02:16 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-13-2005, 02:25 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-13-2005, 02:26 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-13-2005, 02:29 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-13-2005, 02:53 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-13-2005, 03:27 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-13-2005, 04:57 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Rhydderch Hael - 09-13-2005, 07:02 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-13-2005, 08:54 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-13-2005, 09:39 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by ShadowHM - 09-13-2005, 10:03 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-13-2005, 10:15 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Archon_Wing - 09-13-2005, 10:25 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by jahcs - 09-13-2005, 11:41 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-13-2005, 11:47 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Doc - 09-13-2005, 11:50 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-14-2005, 03:35 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-14-2005, 03:37 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-14-2005, 06:40 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-14-2005, 06:43 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by ShadowHM - 09-14-2005, 11:40 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-14-2005, 12:29 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-14-2005, 02:57 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-14-2005, 03:00 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by kandrathe - 09-14-2005, 04:31 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by eppie - 09-14-2005, 05:26 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Minionman - 09-14-2005, 09:50 PM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by whyBish - 09-19-2005, 10:40 AM
Guns, Butter, and Led Zepplin - by Occhidiangela - 09-19-2005, 02:21 PM

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