08-18-2005, 06:46 PM
GentlemanLoser,Aug 18 2005, 12:27 PM Wrote:I've got a level 34 Pure Balance Spec Druid, and have now become frustrated by the lack of DD spells I have. Ignoring Roots (which is a root with some added small damage, not reallt a DD spell - also decause of diminishing returns...) All Druids have access to Three Direct Damage Spells. Wrath, Moonfire and Starfire. In my opinion, Wrath is just a mini version of Starfire, leaving us with really two different untalented spells. We get a third, Hurricane, as a 31 point Talent.
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Wrath is not a mini starfire. One is nature the other is arcene damage. A balance druid is most likey going to have the improved wrath talent so it will be 1.5 second cast vs 3.5s cast for starfire. Starfire is an opener, wrath is you DD damage dealer. 1.5 second cast is fast enough that you can avoid a lot of cast stuttering as well. Hurricane is a pretty good AoE attack especially with barkskin to allow you to channel it. The priest Holy Nova does not compare.
GentlemanLoser,Aug 18 2005, 12:27 PM Wrote:Consider Priests, the other 'Primary Healer' class (Ho hum, what do Blizzard do when they can't figure out how to make thier hybrid class work? Re label it as Primary Healer. Not only do Druids suffer the Hybrid penalty of not being able to use thier Ranged weapon slot, but as no longer ture Hybrids, Druids also have thier weapon timer re set by spells, unlike true hybrids...).
Priests (and I'll look at NE Priest compared to NE Druid) have access to five non talented DD spells. Smite, SW:P, Mindblast, Mana burn and Starshards. On top of that, they have the potential to learn another three from Talents. Mind Flay, Holy Fire and Holy Nova.
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And most priest won't have more than 4 DD spells. Smite can't be cast in close combat without horrible stuttering because it is a 2.5 second cast. So that takes that out for anything but a shot while a mob is running to them. Mindblast can be cast in combat but has a long cooldown, even talented. So untalented the druid wins this contest. Priests get the melee timer reset by casts as well. Mana burn is a limited set of opponents. Holy Fire is an opener only because of cast time. Mind Flay is good but channeled. Shield does allow all these to be cast uninterrupted but shield is also not mana efficient and requires talents to be used constantly as well. Starshards is only available to one alliance priest.
Now admittedly a heavy shadow investment by a priest is going to help them a lot. I haven't looked it closely enough but it could make them more powerful than a balance druid for DD. But your arguments are not as simple as you made them.
GentlemanLoser,Aug 18 2005, 12:27 PM Wrote:As a Balance Druid, I have +Int/+Spell Dmage Gear. I have base Str and Agility. Shifting to a melee form is redundant. It makes me worse. On top of that, If I have mana left to shift, I would be better using it on a heal, root, last ditch damage spell or shifting to travel form to run away. Bear and Cat serve no purpose for me (apart from the generic uses of Stealth, Dash, Track H and the ocasional Bash...).
But what happens if I stay in Caster form? I can't melee, I only hit with a weapon to hope for am Omen Proc. BS when I get it might be nice, but as after my Moonfire is ticking away, my primary means of damage is Starefire/Wrath, BS will make these even slower...
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Even in my caster gear I will use cat and bear form. Cat form will still do good damage to a cloth wearer even in caster gear because of the static damage portion of some of the attacks. There is no reason you can't stealth open in cat form slap a small DoT on with a quick one point finisher, shift out and probably watch the thing root itself, back out starfire, wrath and moonfire it to death.
GentlemanLoser,Aug 18 2005, 12:27 PM Wrote:What is a Druid meant to do? I assume Blizz entertained the notion that Druids would all, regardless of spec, shift into an animal form any time a mob get close enough to worry them. But in application, that doesn't work.
I've also been disheartened by a recent American Druid post claiming a Priest with PW:S, IF and Cloth armour whacking away with a staff out performed a non feral Bear in Melee.
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No you don't shift to feral form you use roots to kite the mob, which a priest can't do.
If the thing is hitting to hard or you can't root, yes you do shift to bear after casting rejuv and maybe regrowth depending and absorb more damage, use frenzied regen to heal or slow incoming damage more while you get mana back. Bear form DPS is not great but even in caster gear the extra damage mitigation you get from. You don't use it all the time but you can use it similar to how a priest uses shield and you can fight one or two slower fights in bear to regen mana while that priest is sitting and drinking.
The priest may have done more damage, but I'd have to see the equipment and specs. I'd like to know which one sustained longer (and the druid can certianly pop to caster to heal). If you know you are going to go bear form you put on your feral gear and you go. Most classes carry multiple equipment sets, druids should too, and they should probably start out at an earlier level doing so. Heck I solo in my feral gear most of the time simply because the extra mana isn't needed as much but I'm 34 restoration / 17 feral (cat focused) and I want my versatility to be as strong as possible.
GentlemanLoser,Aug 18 2005, 12:27 PM Wrote:So why does a Caster class, that not only can heal but out melee a Druid when spec'd as a Primary Healer have more versatility in nuking as a purely damage spec'd (as that's really all the Balance tree does) 'Balance' Druid?
As Blizz doesn't seem to invisigion Druids as damage capable casters, what is the Balance tree for?
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I don't agree with your premise, though again my L60 druid is not balance spec. I don't think a discipline/holy priest (your spec as primary healer comment) can out nuke a balance druid either but I'd have to look at it. I personally think you are using wrath wrong as well.
Omen of Clarity does have issues, I will grant you that, which is part of the reason I skipped it and went feral anyway with my 17 extra points.
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It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.