07-01-2005, 03:12 AM
general reply on druids, having gotten one to 60, and counter-rant below...
barkskin + tranquility/hurricane means you can generally get off the 10 seconds of channelling (unless you are really taking a beating)... before barkskin, both of these spells were truly worthless...
i don't think i ever used tranquility in a real world situation...
since i had a weird spec (never respecced), i had hurricane, which i generally wouldn't recommend... it's good enough to take out the annoying-aoe critters... not as good as a mage's aoe, but it doesn't hurt...
battle rez is rarely useful, but it's nice when it is... i once used it to good effect vs drak in UBRS... had to use a mana potion though...
druid versatility is quite nice... up to 50 or so you can fill in for a lot of party roles as necessary... a lot of niche abilities that can come in handy, stealth form (if there's no rogue in the group), stealth + rez can be nice too (recovered from a re-pop in LBRS that way once), beast crowd control... everyone loves MotW...
in my experience as primary/sole healer, i wasn't good enough (balance/rest spec, didn't have nature's swiftness) to compensate for bad groups like a priest could... however, if there was a decent+ tank, things were fine... this just meant that i would focus on the warrior, and not waste mana elsewhere (i.e. let them linger at 50% health so maybe they'll get the picture and let the tank do his/her job)... also, if i get in to melee for my mediocre damage (i.e. not draw aggro), omen of clarity is nice in that you get a free 800 mana heal once per battle...
before the level 50 instances, party composition really doesn't matter that much... i did the scarlet monastery in a couple of really weird groups, one with no healers (on an alt)... it was kinda fun really since we had to play differently... obviously with some combinations you won't be racing through instances since you'll need to take extra precautions...
for the latter 5-man instances, you have to have a priest or shaman along to rez... a druid can't be the sole healer for that reason alone... i've gone a number of runs where i was the primary healer and there was a shaman for rezing (and i'd rez him if necessary)...
i don't think too many groups turned me down because they already had a priest (obviously hard to say from my PoV)... if i was in a party without a priest, it just meant there had to be a shaman as well... and that isn't that much of an inconvenience... it basically means what would be a priest's duties are split 80% to the druid, and 15% to the shaman (and 5% lost), but the druid and shaman still have the rest of their abilities that a priest couldn't do, so it's not a big deal...
"the mage dies again"... and you're blaming the druid for having a timer on his rez? that's idiotic... tell that mage to learn how to manage aggro... also 6 dogs... you should only be fighting 3 at a time... not sure how you can die to that...
or because he couldn't use a paladin's bubble... wouldn't that have saved the day too? (just trying to point out that you are misplacing the blame)
you should be able to do a tribute run with any of the groups you mentioned... lack of AoE isn't a big deal in DM... hurricane/hunter's AoE will do just fine for the scorpids/plants (and you don't need to aoe the dogs)... druids can hibernate a dog... druids can stealth to that second key (i always did the "kill first guard and re-enter the instance" trick -- apparently they are fixing that?)... and as horde, we usually had a shaman solo cho'rush (obviously different for the alliance)... but horde doesn't have the option of dropping the warrior...
if you're dead set on there being only one way to do DM, don't you wonder how warlocks ever get stuff from there?
generally, in my experience it has been first come first served... the only requirements are tank + healing... that could mean "warrior + priest + extra x 3", or "warrior + druid + shaman + priest + extra" (mages are the most preferred extra of course :) that just means the more versatile classes shift into their other roles... priests are rare enough that you won't be able to play every instance with one...
--fractaled
barkskin + tranquility/hurricane means you can generally get off the 10 seconds of channelling (unless you are really taking a beating)... before barkskin, both of these spells were truly worthless...
i don't think i ever used tranquility in a real world situation...
since i had a weird spec (never respecced), i had hurricane, which i generally wouldn't recommend... it's good enough to take out the annoying-aoe critters... not as good as a mage's aoe, but it doesn't hurt...
battle rez is rarely useful, but it's nice when it is... i once used it to good effect vs drak in UBRS... had to use a mana potion though...
druid versatility is quite nice... up to 50 or so you can fill in for a lot of party roles as necessary... a lot of niche abilities that can come in handy, stealth form (if there's no rogue in the group), stealth + rez can be nice too (recovered from a re-pop in LBRS that way once), beast crowd control... everyone loves MotW...
in my experience as primary/sole healer, i wasn't good enough (balance/rest spec, didn't have nature's swiftness) to compensate for bad groups like a priest could... however, if there was a decent+ tank, things were fine... this just meant that i would focus on the warrior, and not waste mana elsewhere (i.e. let them linger at 50% health so maybe they'll get the picture and let the tank do his/her job)... also, if i get in to melee for my mediocre damage (i.e. not draw aggro), omen of clarity is nice in that you get a free 800 mana heal once per battle...
before the level 50 instances, party composition really doesn't matter that much... i did the scarlet monastery in a couple of really weird groups, one with no healers (on an alt)... it was kinda fun really since we had to play differently... obviously with some combinations you won't be racing through instances since you'll need to take extra precautions...
for the latter 5-man instances, you have to have a priest or shaman along to rez... a druid can't be the sole healer for that reason alone... i've gone a number of runs where i was the primary healer and there was a shaman for rezing (and i'd rez him if necessary)...
i don't think too many groups turned me down because they already had a priest (obviously hard to say from my PoV)... if i was in a party without a priest, it just meant there had to be a shaman as well... and that isn't that much of an inconvenience... it basically means what would be a priest's duties are split 80% to the druid, and 15% to the shaman (and 5% lost), but the druid and shaman still have the rest of their abilities that a priest couldn't do, so it's not a big deal...
Quark,Jun 29 2005, 01:02 AM Wrote:Two groups I've taken through DM North for Tribute runs:
1) Warrior, Priest, Mage, Rogue, Hunter. All goes smooth until the 6 dogs right before the king. During the 6 dogs, the Mage goes down. It's alright, he's used to it :whistling:. Priest does a res and we move on to the King. Warrior goes down with the King at 4% life, we kill King. Priest does a res and we collect our rewards.
2) Warrior, Druid, Mage, Rogue, Hunter. All doesn't go smooth until the 6 dogs, but that's of no consequence since we all ran back it was no fault of priest versus druid. At the 6 dogs, the Mage dies again. So the Druid uses his res, and we keep going. The Warrior dies right before the King goes down again. Oh crap, Res is on cooldown. Warrior releases and starts running back. An Eye of Kilrogg respawns and kills him. Now we're stuck because we have to make sure the King doesn't disappear. So the warrior opts out of the loot, we grab it, and run back to help him.
"the mage dies again"... and you're blaming the druid for having a timer on his rez? that's idiotic... tell that mage to learn how to manage aggro... also 6 dogs... you should only be fighting 3 at a time... not sure how you can die to that...
Quote:A warrior lost his chance of loot simply because of the difference in Res ability.
or because he couldn't use a paladin's bubble... wouldn't that have saved the day too? (just trying to point out that you are misplacing the blame)
Quote:The druid vs priest argument may not make that much of a difference true healing wise. But then you try to take care of the res difference, so you bring in a Paladin. Who gets kicked out on a Tribute Run? Take out the Mage, you have it much harder because of lack of AoE. Sure, the plants aren't too tough, but dogs are. You also lose the always awesome Polymorph. Take out the Hunter, and you lose the common strategy of Hunter's pet on Cho'Rush. Take out the Rogue, and you lose the easiest way to one key, and the ability to pick open another (instead of killing a guard and losing tribute). This + lost Sap makes it a little more difficult, though an Engineer or Blacksmith can cut in to bust open the one door. Take out the Warrior might be the best option, so now your two main positions have the 2nd option instead of the first -> Pally/Druid instead of Warr/Priest.
you should be able to do a tribute run with any of the groups you mentioned... lack of AoE isn't a big deal in DM... hurricane/hunter's AoE will do just fine for the scorpids/plants (and you don't need to aoe the dogs)... druids can hibernate a dog... druids can stealth to that second key (i always did the "kill first guard and re-enter the instance" trick -- apparently they are fixing that?)... and as horde, we usually had a shaman solo cho'rush (obviously different for the alliance)... but horde doesn't have the option of dropping the warrior...
Quote:Can anyone tell me any of that is really preferable to simply having a Priest?
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if you're dead set on there being only one way to do DM, don't you wonder how warlocks ever get stuff from there?
generally, in my experience it has been first come first served... the only requirements are tank + healing... that could mean "warrior + priest + extra x 3", or "warrior + druid + shaman + priest + extra" (mages are the most preferred extra of course :) that just means the more versatile classes shift into their other roles... priests are rare enough that you won't be able to play every instance with one...
--fractaled