Hmm, I don't want to quote your whole post so it doesn't get bloated but some more thoughts/questions:
First off: Flyndar is specced disc/holy and pretty much has been for most of his life (he only had minimal shadow prior to capping and skills you mention like Improved PW:S and Improved Renew are some of the first skills I went for when building him). My only point in saying this is to point out that we are starting with a similar skillset.
Just a note that I didn't think of earlier as well, preshielding is also beneficial in that in can stop spell interruption. I don't think this is so relevant in this particular discussion though because I assume Littledude and Sabramage have Improved Arcane explosion and won't be interrupted when AOEing with it.
Before I get into my questions I'd also like to clear up one more thing. Your assertion that not preshielding can save some mana is correct, but you theoretically only save as much mana as the casting cost of the shield minus the amount you have regened before the AOEer engages the enemy. Being a disc/holy priest I have mental agility along with a reasonable amount of spirit and +mana/sec. gear that makes it so that I can regen a decent portion of that preshield cost before we even engage the enemy (assuming a 5-10 second lead time to tick off most of the original 15 second weakend soul timer). I will certainly concede that you save this amount of mana, but I'm not sure that that amount of mana is truly significant unless you are in a long high pressure battle (in which case aoe is probably not your opening tactic) or you get a string of adds (which certainly CAN happen When Things Go Wrong™ but shouldn't be a common situation).
To be perfectly honest it is a rare scrum where Flyn runs out of mana. This generally only happens in extended boss fights or situations that involve gross overpulls or multiple chained adds. I literally eat on average about one to two mana pots per week! This includes both 5-man runs and raids with varying numbers of healers from one to three or more.
With that out of the way, I still don't know that I completely understand a few things you said...
The first thing is that you implied that with renew (first) and then shield that by the time 15 seconds are up (for weakened soul) the mage is still doing fine and the mobs are almost dead, if not already swimming with the fishes. Taking max rank shield and renew that is saving roughly (very rough numbers) 2000 hps. Maybe I have been in different situations then you but in my experience 2000 hps is nothing for a few mobs to tear down in well less than 15 seconds. By the time you hit cap (where these numbers match up to) a mage will probably have at least 4000 hps after they are buffed up and they can still die in less than 5 seconds if you are not careful. Renew simply does not heal fast enough to be much more than a small added buffer. Shields and Flash Heals are your only recourse (although renew should still be on at all times).
The thing that I am really confused about is this though:
This is how I interpret this; I interpret it as you let the mage take a few hits, then shield so that you can heal them up while they are shielded. If you preshield them then they aren't taking any damage at the beginning and then when the shield drops they are and you have to wait to start healing then (as healing before this is pointless). At this point you don't want to shield again to conserve mana so you would have to hit them with spam flashes to keep them up until the mob dies...
What I would contend is that in any event that the shield might get torn down you are (incidentally intentionally) putting yourself against that 15-second weakened soul. You are conceding that you can't shield again in the next 15 seconds when things could go wrong. What I would say is this:
If you preshield (once again with a 5-10 second buffer) you don't have to heal for the first x seconds while the mob is trying to break down the shield. At worst you might want to prebuff a renew so that it is already ticking when the shield does go down. This means that you get 5-10+x seconds of mana regen before you need to start casting heals at all (your AOEer is protected by the shield and if your tank goes down in x find a new tank, I'm sure Gnolack can survive for about 5 seconds without dying except in some exceptional circumstances). This also has the added bonus of you generating zero hate until x seconds have passed, thereby reducing your chance of pulling aggro.
If you are specced as a true disc/holy priest then your regen over those 5-10+x seconds should get back most of the mana that you used to cast that initial shield. I would contend that any difference here is VERY RARELY going to be the difference between life and death. If it comes down to an emergency situation this at most the difference of one flash heal, most probably less than enough to cast an additional heal.
So in the long run I see the mana difference to be insignificant and as far as I can tell this is your main reason for doing it that way. The benefits to preshielding are enough to outweigh any potential mana savings IMHO: No threat generated from that first shield (and even renew if you precast it before engaging) and knowing that weakened soul will be gone in the case that you NEED to cast a second shield (whatever that reason may be). I will also say that if you are running with mages (which is assumed here) you will always have water. If you preshield prior to entering combat you can always drink for the first x seconds of the battle and I can almost certainly guarantee that those x seconds of drinking will regen the amount of mana you "lost" to casting that preshield. This will start your battle with full mana and a shield already up (and thus weakened soul ending sooner). Even though your method will be successful almost as often, I see no reason not to get into the habit of preshielding every time because it has that small extra measure of safety and no true downside.
Just my $0.02.
- mjdoom
Edit: Hah, my post got bloated anyway without quoting too much :P. Anyway, I'm all for open discussion of any priest tactics so any responses to this are more than welcome.
First off: Flyndar is specced disc/holy and pretty much has been for most of his life (he only had minimal shadow prior to capping and skills you mention like Improved PW:S and Improved Renew are some of the first skills I went for when building him). My only point in saying this is to point out that we are starting with a similar skillset.
Just a note that I didn't think of earlier as well, preshielding is also beneficial in that in can stop spell interruption. I don't think this is so relevant in this particular discussion though because I assume Littledude and Sabramage have Improved Arcane explosion and won't be interrupted when AOEing with it.
Before I get into my questions I'd also like to clear up one more thing. Your assertion that not preshielding can save some mana is correct, but you theoretically only save as much mana as the casting cost of the shield minus the amount you have regened before the AOEer engages the enemy. Being a disc/holy priest I have mental agility along with a reasonable amount of spirit and +mana/sec. gear that makes it so that I can regen a decent portion of that preshield cost before we even engage the enemy (assuming a 5-10 second lead time to tick off most of the original 15 second weakend soul timer). I will certainly concede that you save this amount of mana, but I'm not sure that that amount of mana is truly significant unless you are in a long high pressure battle (in which case aoe is probably not your opening tactic) or you get a string of adds (which certainly CAN happen When Things Go Wrong™ but shouldn't be a common situation).
To be perfectly honest it is a rare scrum where Flyn runs out of mana. This generally only happens in extended boss fights or situations that involve gross overpulls or multiple chained adds. I literally eat on average about one to two mana pots per week! This includes both 5-man runs and raids with varying numbers of healers from one to three or more.
With that out of the way, I still don't know that I completely understand a few things you said...
The first thing is that you implied that with renew (first) and then shield that by the time 15 seconds are up (for weakened soul) the mage is still doing fine and the mobs are almost dead, if not already swimming with the fishes. Taking max rank shield and renew that is saving roughly (very rough numbers) 2000 hps. Maybe I have been in different situations then you but in my experience 2000 hps is nothing for a few mobs to tear down in well less than 15 seconds. By the time you hit cap (where these numbers match up to) a mage will probably have at least 4000 hps after they are buffed up and they can still die in less than 5 seconds if you are not careful. Renew simply does not heal fast enough to be much more than a small added buffer. Shields and Flash Heals are your only recourse (although renew should still be on at all times).
The thing that I am really confused about is this though:
Quote:If you pre-shield, then your mage doesn't get that first 2-3 "free" AoEs so the mobs aren't as hurt when the shield goes down so you are more likely to be required to shield again. With this method, I'm less likely to have to shield a second time and that saves me mana.
This is how I interpret this; I interpret it as you let the mage take a few hits, then shield so that you can heal them up while they are shielded. If you preshield them then they aren't taking any damage at the beginning and then when the shield drops they are and you have to wait to start healing then (as healing before this is pointless). At this point you don't want to shield again to conserve mana so you would have to hit them with spam flashes to keep them up until the mob dies...
What I would contend is that in any event that the shield might get torn down you are (incidentally intentionally) putting yourself against that 15-second weakened soul. You are conceding that you can't shield again in the next 15 seconds when things could go wrong. What I would say is this:
If you preshield (once again with a 5-10 second buffer) you don't have to heal for the first x seconds while the mob is trying to break down the shield. At worst you might want to prebuff a renew so that it is already ticking when the shield does go down. This means that you get 5-10+x seconds of mana regen before you need to start casting heals at all (your AOEer is protected by the shield and if your tank goes down in x find a new tank, I'm sure Gnolack can survive for about 5 seconds without dying except in some exceptional circumstances). This also has the added bonus of you generating zero hate until x seconds have passed, thereby reducing your chance of pulling aggro.
If you are specced as a true disc/holy priest then your regen over those 5-10+x seconds should get back most of the mana that you used to cast that initial shield. I would contend that any difference here is VERY RARELY going to be the difference between life and death. If it comes down to an emergency situation this at most the difference of one flash heal, most probably less than enough to cast an additional heal.
So in the long run I see the mana difference to be insignificant and as far as I can tell this is your main reason for doing it that way. The benefits to preshielding are enough to outweigh any potential mana savings IMHO: No threat generated from that first shield (and even renew if you precast it before engaging) and knowing that weakened soul will be gone in the case that you NEED to cast a second shield (whatever that reason may be). I will also say that if you are running with mages (which is assumed here) you will always have water. If you preshield prior to entering combat you can always drink for the first x seconds of the battle and I can almost certainly guarantee that those x seconds of drinking will regen the amount of mana you "lost" to casting that preshield. This will start your battle with full mana and a shield already up (and thus weakened soul ending sooner). Even though your method will be successful almost as often, I see no reason not to get into the habit of preshielding every time because it has that small extra measure of safety and no true downside.
Just my $0.02.
- mjdoom
Edit: Hah, my post got bloated anyway without quoting too much :P. Anyway, I'm all for open discussion of any priest tactics so any responses to this are more than welcome.
Stormrage:
Flyndar (60) - Dwarf Priest - Tailoring (300), Enchanting (300)
Minimagi (60) - Gnome Mage - Herbalism (300), Engineering (301)
Galreth (60) - Human Warrior - Blacksmithing (300), Alchemy (300); Critical Mass by name, Lurker in spirit
ArynWindborn (19) - Human Paladin - Mining/Engineering (121)
Flyndar (60) - Dwarf Priest - Tailoring (300), Enchanting (300)
Minimagi (60) - Gnome Mage - Herbalism (300), Engineering (301)
Galreth (60) - Human Warrior - Blacksmithing (300), Alchemy (300); Critical Mass by name, Lurker in spirit
ArynWindborn (19) - Human Paladin - Mining/Engineering (121)