Is the (Shadow)Priest the better Mage in WOW?

[KiloVictor]

AoE is about two things.  Positioning and damage.  Once you've mastered positioning, mobility is not worthwhile.

I won't go so far as to categorically state it as truth, but I think mobility in combat is always worthwhile. I'm pretty sure the cliche "stand still and die" originated in combat somewhere. :)

Mobility is key to avoiding or minimizing melee damage. It cuts down on the amount of healing that my mage pal needs, and it means that he can usually take 15 seconds before the mobs have cut through PW:S, at which point I can give him another. It allows him to gather the mobs up and start the train moving. It's just a built-in part of a moving AoE tactic, although if you don't buy that moving AoE is a viable strategy, I can see why you'd make the assertion.

Blast wave, kite and IAE them for five seconds.  Sure.  After those five seconds, though, you can't turn or they'll catch you.  You have to run off in a straight line while they die, and by the way, the mage is the only one applying damage.  The tank is chasing the mobs, the rogue is chasing the mobs, the priest is chasing the mage....  And where exactly do you have that kind of space?  Scarlet Bastion; Reliquary; Rookery.  I just named three critical areas where there's no room to move at all.  What good's the style when it only works when you don't need it?

Running in a straight line isn't the way to go. Switching directions with a blink is usually preferred as it drags the mob through the same area repeatedly and our other attackers can use any AoE that they have -- it's usually only hunter volley, but we sometimes run with 'locks or shammies that can add other AoE. But the net effect is that we don't need a lot of room; in the Rookery we'll just run back and forth between Father Flame and the nearest corner.

My experience is that having mobs catch the mage is not a problem if he's shielded and has healer cover. And frost armor means that the mobs usually get a single lick at the mage, and then fall behind again.

We use all the snares we have to keep them from catching the mage. The mage has blizzard and frost nova, and we'll add shammy totems for earthbind if we have them available. Our warrior starts the whole series by working up as much aggro as he can (usually with whirlwind, cleave or sweeping strikes) then when AoE starts, he uses piercing howl and/or thunderclap on the group, and hamstrings the hardest hitter he can reach. Our hunter chips in his concussive shot on any high-damage mob and frost traps for the rest of them. When you stack these all together, and the group coordinates them so that we aren't wasting snares by stacking them, it gives us a lot of time and range for the mage to kite.

The mage never gets away untouched, but it's rare that he takes significant damage. He gets full healer attention during all this, so he can take a lot of pounding for a short time.

Warlock ticks more frequently; they're the ones with many attacks, which also hit harder.  Zipping around doesn't increase the frequency of attack.

Sorry, guess that part of my post wasn't clear. The zipping around enables him to bring the attack to the mobs, so we can make sure none of them escape the AoE. That's one of the biggest benefits he brings over having a warlock do AoE. No, it doesn't increase the frequency of attack.

As for warlock dots, corruption, agony and siphon life only proc every three seconds, so they come out about equal to a mage spamming AE -- in a longer fight, they'd probably start to pull ahead due to stacking effects. But the overhead of casting time means that the lock needs a while just to get all his dots deployed on the targets. We're going for fast and furious, so we never bother with 'lock dots. Curse of elements is usually more bang for the buck.

I think so.  But please refrain from addressing me as if I have no experience ever playing a mage at all.

The assumption made here and throughout the rest of the post is that I've never ever tried it, and I'm saying it doesn't work based on no personal experience at all.  Don't make it.
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I didn't assume that. I read your posts as saying categorically that 1) mages didn't have the best AoE damage in the game, and 2) the AoE kiting tactics that were being discussed were "of marginal utility" at best. I don't agree, that's all.

My experience is the opposite, and I'm trying to lay out the tactics my regular playgroup (which is a core of four: my priest, a hunter, our tank, and a mage) uses to max our AoE effectiveness, including specific class skill usage and party member responsibilities while we're doing it.

I'm attempting to disagree civilly and specifically. I've inferred a lot of "it won't work, don't bother" from your responses, but no "I've tried that, and here's why I don't like it". So perhaps I assumed you've never tried the tactics, but I didn't assume you've not played the mage to a high level. The fact that you have is obvious in your stickied guides and the other postings you've made here.

I just happen to play with a mage that plays all-out for aggro, and we've learned as a group to make that work for us. Rereading your guide, for instance, you write about blizzard as a closer skill to ensure you don't get aggro. My buddy, OTOH, opens with blizzard because he wants the aggro -- he wants all the mobs clustered, chilled, and coming towards him. It's part of his different style.

So I'm not saying you're not knowledgeable in the class, I'm just talking about a different playstyle. And I guess I did implicity assume that you had no experience in it, because nothing you've written to date comes from that perspective. My apologies if that comes across as condescending, it's not intended that way at all.

No offense or disrespect intended or implied. We're just talking about two different things, I guess.

Cheers,
Kv

Edit: damn typos