the outcome of the election
Kharohz,Nov 4 2004, 03:36 PM Wrote:Assuming you actually believe what you just typed, maybe you should worry less about what goes on in the USA and worry more about your own country.   ;)
[right][snapback]59239[/snapback][/right]

For what it's worth:

EDIT: I think this is actually replying to Chaerphon.

The majority of these votes for Bush were votes for single-minded self-determination. Fear and xenophobia have gotten him another four-year term. Self-determination is one thing and going it alone is something else altogether. The time is rapidly approaching at which America WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO GO IT ALONE.

America has not gone it alone since about 1898. Your misunderstanding of that, and your complete ignorance of American security policy to act as part of a coalition as a matter of deliberate habit may be to blame.

It only appears to a novice that America "goes it alone" due to the immense disparity of power between the US and the next player. My experience in NATO showed me how far apart in capability to act America, and our next closest allies, are. The gap has only grown wider in the years since I left Italy, 1998. Not bringing France and Germany along is NOT going it alone. Heck, the Germans ducked Bosnia, back when NATO had to unscrew that mess.

That said, it is a shame and a big disappointment that we could not find a way to bring the whole team in, as the post "major hostilities" phase could have been handled far, far, better from a team building perspective. Check the line up in Afghanistan sometime, why don't you? Going it alone? Nope.

EU. We shall see how it grows if it ever pays its own defense and security bill, which it still does not now. Still sucking on the American security nipple, though I am encouraged by the current indications of a change in that regard.

Your comment regarding "declining hegemon" has some merit. That is an economic phenomenon. I'd suggest that its first hints were in 1973, when John Galt rose up in a head dress and robes. I refer to OPEC. John Galt, or Achmed Galt perhaps, is alive and well, thanks to the modern industrial world's petroleum habit. He just has a new attitude now.

As the Pacific Rim continues to take on a new shape, the tides of economic power may shift again. American economic policy needs to stay ahead of that wave, or the real strength of America, its economic muscle, will atrophy.

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Messages In This Thread
the outcome of the election - by Fragbait - 11-03-2004, 11:18 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-03-2004, 11:51 AM
the outcome of the election - by FoxBat - 11-03-2004, 12:06 PM
the outcome of the election - by [wcip]Angel - 11-03-2004, 12:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-03-2004, 01:39 PM
the outcome of the election - by Fragbait - 11-03-2004, 02:03 PM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-03-2004, 02:21 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-03-2004, 02:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by Lady Vashj - 11-03-2004, 02:28 PM
the outcome of the election - by Jester - 11-03-2004, 03:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by Count Duckula - 11-03-2004, 03:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-03-2004, 03:36 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-03-2004, 03:46 PM
the outcome of the election - by BruceGod - 11-03-2004, 03:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-03-2004, 04:04 PM
the outcome of the election - by Sir_Die_alot - 11-03-2004, 04:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by ShadowHM - 11-03-2004, 04:38 PM
the outcome of the election - by Sir_Die_alot - 11-03-2004, 04:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-03-2004, 04:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 04:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Baajikiil - 11-03-2004, 05:18 PM
the outcome of the election - by [wcip]Angel - 11-03-2004, 05:28 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-03-2004, 05:37 PM
the outcome of the election - by Nystul - 11-03-2004, 05:59 PM
the outcome of the election - by ShadowHM - 11-03-2004, 06:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-03-2004, 06:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-03-2004, 06:15 PM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-03-2004, 06:17 PM
the outcome of the election - by Sir_Die_alot - 11-03-2004, 06:30 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-03-2004, 06:38 PM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-03-2004, 06:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by gekko - 11-03-2004, 06:57 PM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-03-2004, 07:12 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-03-2004, 07:19 PM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-03-2004, 07:40 PM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-03-2004, 07:59 PM
the outcome of the election - by Archon_Wing - 11-03-2004, 08:07 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 08:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-03-2004, 08:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by Zarathustra - 11-03-2004, 09:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 09:25 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 09:32 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 09:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 09:46 PM
the outcome of the election - by LochnarITB - 11-03-2004, 09:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 09:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 09:54 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 09:58 PM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-03-2004, 10:02 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 10:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-03-2004, 10:10 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-03-2004, 10:13 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 10:19 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 10:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 10:26 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-03-2004, 10:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-03-2004, 10:31 PM
the outcome of the election - by Nystul - 11-03-2004, 10:34 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-03-2004, 10:36 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 10:37 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-03-2004, 10:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 10:52 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-03-2004, 10:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Cryptic - 11-03-2004, 11:01 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-03-2004, 11:04 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-03-2004, 11:10 PM
the outcome of the election - by Kharohz - 11-04-2004, 12:06 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 12:26 AM
the outcome of the election - by [wcip]Angel - 11-04-2004, 12:28 AM
the outcome of the election - by FoxBat - 11-04-2004, 12:30 AM
the outcome of the election - by FoxBat - 11-04-2004, 12:31 AM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-04-2004, 12:35 AM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-04-2004, 12:53 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-04-2004, 12:58 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-04-2004, 01:02 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-04-2004, 01:10 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 01:55 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-04-2004, 01:59 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-04-2004, 02:02 AM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-04-2004, 02:20 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 02:23 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 02:25 AM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-04-2004, 03:53 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 03:56 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 03:59 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 04:19 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 04:27 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 04:42 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 04:42 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 04:48 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 04:53 AM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-04-2004, 06:00 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 06:13 AM
the outcome of the election - by JustAGuy - 11-04-2004, 06:14 AM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-04-2004, 07:00 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 07:08 AM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-04-2004, 07:35 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 07:46 AM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-04-2004, 07:58 AM
the outcome of the election - by jrichard - 11-04-2004, 08:16 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 09:28 AM
the outcome of the election - by concre+e - 11-04-2004, 09:28 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-04-2004, 10:11 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-04-2004, 10:41 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-04-2004, 10:56 AM
the outcome of the election - by Fragbait - 11-04-2004, 12:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-04-2004, 02:21 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 02:25 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-04-2004, 02:32 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 02:35 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 02:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 02:55 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 02:59 PM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 05:02 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 05:19 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-04-2004, 05:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-04-2004, 06:13 PM
the outcome of the election - by Guest - 11-04-2004, 06:14 PM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-04-2004, 06:15 PM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 06:16 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 07:49 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-04-2004, 08:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 08:51 PM
the outcome of the election - by jrichard - 11-04-2004, 09:10 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 09:17 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-04-2004, 09:33 PM
the outcome of the election - by Kharohz - 11-04-2004, 09:36 PM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-04-2004, 09:49 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-04-2004, 11:18 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-05-2004, 12:51 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-05-2004, 01:18 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-05-2004, 01:42 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-05-2004, 01:43 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-05-2004, 01:48 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 02:20 AM
the outcome of the election - by Bolty - 11-05-2004, 02:31 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 02:35 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 02:55 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 03:03 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 03:05 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 03:14 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-05-2004, 03:24 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 03:26 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-05-2004, 03:33 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-05-2004, 03:36 AM
the outcome of the election - by Butch27 - 11-05-2004, 06:39 AM
the outcome of the election - by whyBish - 11-05-2004, 07:04 AM
the outcome of the election - by whyBish - 11-05-2004, 07:45 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-05-2004, 07:55 AM
the outcome of the election - by jahcs - 11-05-2004, 07:57 AM
the outcome of the election - by LiquidDamage - 11-05-2004, 10:28 AM
the outcome of the election - by Lord_Olf - 11-05-2004, 12:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-05-2004, 01:09 PM
the outcome of the election - by NuurAbSaal - 11-05-2004, 02:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-05-2004, 03:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 03:51 PM
the outcome of the election - by BruceGod - 11-05-2004, 04:27 PM
the outcome of the election - by whathuh - 11-05-2004, 04:50 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 04:54 PM
the outcome of the election - by gekko - 11-05-2004, 05:01 PM
the outcome of the election - by concre+e - 11-05-2004, 05:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-05-2004, 05:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 05:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 05:52 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 05:57 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 06:06 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-05-2004, 06:52 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-05-2004, 08:28 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2004, 10:10 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-05-2004, 11:16 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-05-2004, 11:25 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-05-2004, 11:45 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-05-2004, 11:49 PM
the outcome of the election - by concre+e - 11-06-2004, 12:02 AM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-06-2004, 12:04 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-06-2004, 12:51 AM
the outcome of the election - by whyBish - 11-06-2004, 06:30 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-06-2004, 06:51 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-06-2004, 02:49 PM
the outcome of the election - by ShadowHM - 11-06-2004, 04:18 PM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-06-2004, 07:53 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-06-2004, 08:36 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-06-2004, 10:12 PM
the outcome of the election - by Tommi - 11-06-2004, 11:56 PM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-07-2004, 01:33 AM
the outcome of the election - by --Pete - 11-07-2004, 01:36 AM
the outcome of the election - by Rinnhart - 11-07-2004, 02:20 AM
the outcome of the election - by smithy - 11-07-2004, 04:15 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-07-2004, 05:00 AM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-07-2004, 08:57 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-07-2004, 04:24 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-07-2004, 05:59 PM
the outcome of the election - by ShadowHM - 11-07-2004, 09:35 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-07-2004, 10:59 PM
the outcome of the election - by Assur - 11-08-2004, 12:05 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-08-2004, 01:08 AM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-08-2004, 01:19 AM
the outcome of the election - by whathuh - 11-08-2004, 02:45 AM
the outcome of the election - by Nystul - 11-08-2004, 03:33 AM
the outcome of the election - by Nystul - 11-08-2004, 05:08 AM
the outcome of the election - by Skandranon - 11-08-2004, 07:17 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-08-2004, 10:49 AM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-08-2004, 11:14 AM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-08-2004, 02:17 PM
the outcome of the election - by jahcs - 11-08-2004, 05:33 PM
the outcome of the election - by jahcs - 11-08-2004, 06:13 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-08-2004, 06:15 PM
the outcome of the election - by jahcs - 11-08-2004, 06:33 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-08-2004, 06:34 PM
the outcome of the election - by ManaCraft - 11-08-2004, 06:34 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-08-2004, 06:40 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-08-2004, 07:00 PM
the outcome of the election - by Mavfin - 11-09-2004, 12:00 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-09-2004, 12:46 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-09-2004, 07:46 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-09-2004, 07:55 AM
the outcome of the election - by Lord_Olf - 11-09-2004, 09:13 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-09-2004, 09:28 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-09-2004, 09:49 AM
the outcome of the election - by Lord_Olf - 11-09-2004, 11:27 AM
the outcome of the election - by Lord_Olf - 11-09-2004, 11:45 AM
the outcome of the election - by Tommi - 11-09-2004, 11:53 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-09-2004, 03:10 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-09-2004, 03:54 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-09-2004, 05:35 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-10-2004, 12:27 AM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-10-2004, 12:32 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-10-2004, 02:37 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-10-2004, 02:40 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-10-2004, 02:50 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-10-2004, 03:51 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-10-2004, 04:40 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-10-2004, 05:04 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-10-2004, 05:48 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-10-2004, 06:24 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-10-2004, 07:34 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-10-2004, 08:34 AM
the outcome of the election - by Medicine Man - 11-10-2004, 09:00 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-10-2004, 09:37 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-10-2004, 01:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-10-2004, 01:51 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-10-2004, 02:11 PM
the outcome of the election - by Medicine Man - 11-10-2004, 06:12 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-10-2004, 08:16 PM
the outcome of the election - by LiquidDamage - 11-10-2004, 08:46 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-10-2004, 08:55 PM
the outcome of the election - by ShadowHM - 11-10-2004, 10:38 PM
the outcome of the election - by Armin - 11-11-2004, 12:26 AM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-11-2004, 01:04 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-11-2004, 02:43 AM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-11-2004, 04:52 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 06:43 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-11-2004, 07:39 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-11-2004, 08:49 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 09:19 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-11-2004, 09:46 AM
the outcome of the election - by Medicine Man - 11-11-2004, 10:36 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 04:34 PM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-11-2004, 05:01 PM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-11-2004, 05:25 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 05:52 PM
the outcome of the election - by Assur - 11-11-2004, 07:08 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 07:28 PM
the outcome of the election - by Assur - 11-11-2004, 07:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-11-2004, 09:44 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-11-2004, 09:48 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-11-2004, 10:35 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 11:05 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-11-2004, 11:13 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-12-2004, 12:20 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-12-2004, 02:39 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-12-2004, 06:08 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-12-2004, 06:38 AM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-12-2004, 07:20 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-12-2004, 07:54 AM
the outcome of the election - by eppie - 11-12-2004, 08:02 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-12-2004, 09:54 AM
the outcome of the election - by kandrathe - 11-12-2004, 02:42 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-12-2004, 03:07 PM
the outcome of the election - by Occhidiangela - 11-12-2004, 03:28 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-12-2004, 10:40 PM
the outcome of the election - by Ashock - 11-12-2004, 10:40 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-12-2004, 10:43 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-12-2004, 10:43 PM
the outcome of the election - by Minionman - 11-12-2004, 10:55 PM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-13-2004, 12:35 AM
the outcome of the election - by Chaerophon - 11-13-2004, 09:59 AM

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