Hmm, to try and quell the anger that's going around here...
Conner:
Firstly I'll agree with what you said earlier, but not the way you said it, below is an example of a better method of saying it:
Disclaimer: This is not directed towards the women who are an exception to the 'norm' or what would seem to be the norm (a bit like the thinking that everyone drops litter because it's all over the place and you don't see the litter that isn't dropped, because it's in the bin.) It's a bit of a difficult point to asses as to whether it's now the norm or the exception without taking a census and taking into consideration regular performing of an action of occasional. I stress that most of this probably doesn't apply to most if not all of the women at the lounge. If it doesn't apply to you - don't take offense at it.
If you haven't been living on mars or some other remote, mostly harmless planets somewhere in the vicinity of the sun (or a planet in the vicinity of Betelgeuse for that matter) you probably have read the rest of this thread, but, for those of you who have been living in any of the above mentioned places, a quick re-cap. Basically, someone brought up a quote of conner from a seperate post:
"I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women, and no offense to Griselda, you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories. Not bashing, I'm just saying."
first; to break this down:
I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women,
I don't know about this, also, it's not really relevant to why people got up in arms.
and no offense to Griselda,
You should probably have put a more generaly disclaimer, like the one above
you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories.
This seems to be the thing that everyone seems to have got a bee in their bonnets about. So I shall take this back to the beginning:
Genereally speaking, everyone likes to get to the top of whatever society or situation they find themselves in, this is just human nature.
This is where men and women 'split up', just onservation of people, and no doubt some studies have shown that in general men try to get to the top by surpassing everyone else, and women generally get to the top by bringing everyone else down, and a good way to do this is to gossip and tell tales. Now, like I've said before there are plenty of women who don't but it still seems to be the majority.
Some examples:
For Him Magazine (UK)
basically, the front cover of this months FHM (a mens magazine) has absolutely NO gossip, and from the list of contents, about 2 of 20 features could be classed as gossip, most of it is cars, women, oh, and 27 pairs of trainers (sneakers) on test.
Heat magazine (UK)
This is one of the the major magazine advertisers on UK TV, and what's in the adverts, (which is obviously going to be their main features) is gossip, gossip, gossip, gossip and some more gossip, flicking through one of these (my sister should learn to be more careful where she puts things), a large part of the contents was gossip about this or gossip about that, and a questionnaire where you could gossip about yourself.
The point is that these two magazines, one directed at men and another at women ar entirely different in their gossip content - the mens magazine has very little, whereas it's the main selling point of the women's, if women didn't want to read it they wouldn't put it in the magazine.
This is one example that backs up the case for showing that women to tend to gossip more than men - and to that extent that conner's point was right, and that it was simply badly phrased and would have been treated a bit better if it had been backed up with an example.
[b}Not bashing, I'm just saying. [/b]
I'm glad to see that you're not bashing, but if you want to state an opinion I'm not going to stop you...
Pete,
calling someone a Jackass is moving into the realms of personal insults and flaming, note:
Also, you might want to put a small wanrning in future for links that one has to sign up to something to use, it's aggrivating if one is using a low bandwidth connection or has limited time to wait for the page to load and then to have to fill in all the details to actually read it.
nicodemus:
"QUOTE
And I'll tell you what, if any Admin tells me to buzz off, I'm more than happy to oblidge. I'm not a rude person. Let them email me, not PM.
You say that as if you'd have a choice in the matter at that point. I find that laughable. "
Agreed, that if they wanted him out then he'd have little choice, but I wouldn't find his being polite laughable. I also believe that bolty and the other mods would have the courtesy to ask someone to leave before forcing them to.
Archon:
If he had to fill it with facts then it would be that, facts, not an opinion, the entire difference is that one is a fact and the other an opinion, an opinion is stronger when stated with facts, and to some extent a fact with an opinion can be stronger - however, if someone doesn't have any facts to back up an opinion, it's no reason not to take the opinion for what it is, his opinion. It is a fact that he thinks what he thinks.
And what Conner said wasn't sexist, it was making a generalisation, which may have been wrong, unless what he was saying that women do is a derogatory thing, he's not insulting women by saying it, is saying 'all Americans are fat' racist? it depends on whether you want to call American fat as an insult, or if you simply wish to state your opinion that all Americans are obese.
No doubt my post has been seen as highly controvertial, and will most probably draw flames. I do not like flames, nor to I like drawing flames, but if something needs to be said, I'll brave flames to say it.
-Bob
Conner:
Firstly I'll agree with what you said earlier, but not the way you said it, below is an example of a better method of saying it:
Disclaimer: This is not directed towards the women who are an exception to the 'norm' or what would seem to be the norm (a bit like the thinking that everyone drops litter because it's all over the place and you don't see the litter that isn't dropped, because it's in the bin.) It's a bit of a difficult point to asses as to whether it's now the norm or the exception without taking a census and taking into consideration regular performing of an action of occasional. I stress that most of this probably doesn't apply to most if not all of the women at the lounge. If it doesn't apply to you - don't take offense at it.
If you haven't been living on mars or some other remote, mostly harmless planets somewhere in the vicinity of the sun (or a planet in the vicinity of Betelgeuse for that matter) you probably have read the rest of this thread, but, for those of you who have been living in any of the above mentioned places, a quick re-cap. Basically, someone brought up a quote of conner from a seperate post:
"I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women, and no offense to Griselda, you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories. Not bashing, I'm just saying."
first; to break this down:
I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women,
I don't know about this, also, it's not really relevant to why people got up in arms.
and no offense to Griselda,
You should probably have put a more generaly disclaimer, like the one above
you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories.
This seems to be the thing that everyone seems to have got a bee in their bonnets about. So I shall take this back to the beginning:
Genereally speaking, everyone likes to get to the top of whatever society or situation they find themselves in, this is just human nature.
This is where men and women 'split up', just onservation of people, and no doubt some studies have shown that in general men try to get to the top by surpassing everyone else, and women generally get to the top by bringing everyone else down, and a good way to do this is to gossip and tell tales. Now, like I've said before there are plenty of women who don't but it still seems to be the majority.
Some examples:
For Him Magazine (UK)
basically, the front cover of this months FHM (a mens magazine) has absolutely NO gossip, and from the list of contents, about 2 of 20 features could be classed as gossip, most of it is cars, women, oh, and 27 pairs of trainers (sneakers) on test.
Heat magazine (UK)
This is one of the the major magazine advertisers on UK TV, and what's in the adverts, (which is obviously going to be their main features) is gossip, gossip, gossip, gossip and some more gossip, flicking through one of these (my sister should learn to be more careful where she puts things), a large part of the contents was gossip about this or gossip about that, and a questionnaire where you could gossip about yourself.
The point is that these two magazines, one directed at men and another at women ar entirely different in their gossip content - the mens magazine has very little, whereas it's the main selling point of the women's, if women didn't want to read it they wouldn't put it in the magazine.
This is one example that backs up the case for showing that women to tend to gossip more than men - and to that extent that conner's point was right, and that it was simply badly phrased and would have been treated a bit better if it had been backed up with an example.
[b}Not bashing, I'm just saying. [/b]
I'm glad to see that you're not bashing, but if you want to state an opinion I'm not going to stop you...
Pete,
calling someone a Jackass is moving into the realms of personal insults and flaming, note:
Quote:Take flame wars to email.Your morality and up-bringing may say that it's alright to call someone a jackass, mine would say that such an insult isn't. (I'm not saying that yours is bad, just that it's different)
Flame wars are not welcome here. Address the topic, not the person. What that means is when you're debating a topic, debate the topic. Adding personal insults into your posts nullifies your argument and may result in your post getting wiped by a moderator. There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one. When flaming gets out of control, you will be asked to take your tiff to email or private messages. There's no reason to air your fight in public, and we don't want to see it.
&
Keep it clean.
It's PG-13 here. Computer games, even those rated "mature" by the ESRB, will have young kids playing them. There's no need to have swear words in your posts - they aren't condusive to intelligent debate or strategy discussion anyhow. We run a clean site and we hope that the posters will respect that.
Also, you might want to put a small wanrning in future for links that one has to sign up to something to use, it's aggrivating if one is using a low bandwidth connection or has limited time to wait for the page to load and then to have to fill in all the details to actually read it.
nicodemus:
"QUOTE
And I'll tell you what, if any Admin tells me to buzz off, I'm more than happy to oblidge. I'm not a rude person. Let them email me, not PM.
You say that as if you'd have a choice in the matter at that point. I find that laughable. "
Agreed, that if they wanted him out then he'd have little choice, but I wouldn't find his being polite laughable. I also believe that bolty and the other mods would have the courtesy to ask someone to leave before forcing them to.
Archon:
If he had to fill it with facts then it would be that, facts, not an opinion, the entire difference is that one is a fact and the other an opinion, an opinion is stronger when stated with facts, and to some extent a fact with an opinion can be stronger - however, if someone doesn't have any facts to back up an opinion, it's no reason not to take the opinion for what it is, his opinion. It is a fact that he thinks what he thinks.
And what Conner said wasn't sexist, it was making a generalisation, which may have been wrong, unless what he was saying that women do is a derogatory thing, he's not insulting women by saying it, is saying 'all Americans are fat' racist? it depends on whether you want to call American fat as an insult, or if you simply wish to state your opinion that all Americans are obese.
No doubt my post has been seen as highly controvertial, and will most probably draw flames. I do not like flames, nor to I like drawing flames, but if something needs to be said, I'll brave flames to say it.
-Bob