07-14-2004, 01:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2004, 01:31 AM by malach_cha_movis.)
Hi Fragbait,
Wow! I cannot believe i am actually responding to a strategy question in this forum. I know absolutely nothing. I am still struggling to get past lvl 14 normal Hell with both a clvl 25 mage and a clvl 25 rogue.
A couple of ideas occur to me however, both strategical and tactical. I might be wrong, but on a strategic level, your rogue seems to lack focus. Is she specializing in melee or magic or ranged attacks.
If in magic, she needs more mana. I would think that a base magic level of 81 is attainable and is the necessary amount of magic you would want to have for adventuring. I believe a rogue only gets 1.5 times magic. The prefixes of dragon, drake, and serpent are more valuable to a rogue in supplying mana than using a magic modifier like brilliance (unless it is wizardry in a ring).
That leaves suffices for +all and +dex. I truly do not understand why you would want to have any object with a brilliance or even sorcery suffix. Where are all those suffices of perfection, or if necessary, lesser dex prefixes. Again if I am not mistaken a rogue gets damage from both strength and dexterity, even she is using a sword or shield. Since for a rogue, dex is valuable in two areas, it seems to me that it is beneficial to try to build dex as much as possible and forget about strength (except as needed to equip items). With the +alls, most useful for rogues (?), a suffix that adds strength is superfluous. Even if you want to be a sword and shield mage (Cliveâs Cudgel) an extra point of dex will give you the same damage increase as a point of strength. (Lurkers, is that correct?)
As far as resists go, until Midora-Lherok finds really high level resist all prefixes, it is probably better to stock up on individual resists, maybe using a storage character, if that is considered legit play, to keep all the extra items. They are cheaper to buy and easier to find. This is especially true, if Midora-Lherok goes the low AC mana shield route. That way she can max out her resistance to correspond to the danger on that lvl.
I believe that the above ideas would apply to the building any type of rogue.
Now for some tactical advice. If Midora-Lherok wants to specialize in ranged combat, and with the bow she has, I can understand why, then I think she is lacking in discovery spells, either in her spell book or on scrolls. Golem is the most valuable, not for his destructive capabilities but for searching for monsters that are not susceptible to fire. Guardian and Elemental are cheaper and can be used for any monsters susceptible to fire.
My mage makes good use of the latter two specials for combat as well, but that is because he has loads of mana to utilize (he cannot yet use Golem for combat, as that spell is way too mana expensive and is not yet at a high enough spell level).
I notice that Midora-Lherok doesn't have Flame Wave. I think that is smart as long as she is going for bow specialization. Firewall can perform the same defensive function and it is a lot cheaper. In addition, again if I am not mistaken, the Firewall spell level does not have to be much higher than level eight. Am I right; the only effect Slvl has on Firewall is duration? If a minute's duration is not enough, she is toast anyway.
In the caves, if memory serves, the monsters on any one level exhibit only one magic type attack. So try to max out that resistance.
Another technique that might prove useful, and not only against spitters, is based on stealth. Use your amulet of night as a weapon. By activating only a few monsters, using discovery spells and retreating behind a series of firewalls, your bow and healing potions should do the rest. Also, getting yourself in a corner with only a few monsters then using chain lightening or fireballs and having lots of full blue pots handy is another technique that works for me. Make use of the rivers of lava and choke points. With a rogue, chokepoints are extremely useful, as monsters can be killed at a distance, as they pass through the choke point one at a time.
The spitters always give me trouble. But they usually hide in the caves rather than in the lava fields, so it is possible to activate only a few using guardian. Just have your highest-level natural spell in the ready box and use the guardian scrolls that Midora stocked up. Also, a high-level golem or two works wonders. I also love sneak attacks. I set up my portal, not too far but far enough from a staircase. Then I retreat to through one hatch or the other, and after I have restocked, come down through the other hatch, and kill monsters before they are aware that I am there. Wash and repeat until there are no more.
Of course, I have only tested these ideas out in normal caves. And many of them will not work using the more difficult variants that I have been reading about.
You probably know all this already, but this way I can demonstrate that I am not strategically challenged, just mouse and keyboard challenged.
BTW - I thought your posts in the cheating vs. non-legit thread were very interesting and well thought out.
Malach_cha_Movis
:unsure: And that's what i think!
P.S. I started writing this when there were no responses and now there are two.
P.S.S. BTW - Most of these ideas are not my own. They are a collected assembledge of ideas, i reseached from other threads, other articles, and other websites. Then i tried them out and these are the ones that worked best for me.
Wow! I cannot believe i am actually responding to a strategy question in this forum. I know absolutely nothing. I am still struggling to get past lvl 14 normal Hell with both a clvl 25 mage and a clvl 25 rogue.
A couple of ideas occur to me however, both strategical and tactical. I might be wrong, but on a strategic level, your rogue seems to lack focus. Is she specializing in melee or magic or ranged attacks.
If in magic, she needs more mana. I would think that a base magic level of 81 is attainable and is the necessary amount of magic you would want to have for adventuring. I believe a rogue only gets 1.5 times magic. The prefixes of dragon, drake, and serpent are more valuable to a rogue in supplying mana than using a magic modifier like brilliance (unless it is wizardry in a ring).
That leaves suffices for +all and +dex. I truly do not understand why you would want to have any object with a brilliance or even sorcery suffix. Where are all those suffices of perfection, or if necessary, lesser dex prefixes. Again if I am not mistaken a rogue gets damage from both strength and dexterity, even she is using a sword or shield. Since for a rogue, dex is valuable in two areas, it seems to me that it is beneficial to try to build dex as much as possible and forget about strength (except as needed to equip items). With the +alls, most useful for rogues (?), a suffix that adds strength is superfluous. Even if you want to be a sword and shield mage (Cliveâs Cudgel) an extra point of dex will give you the same damage increase as a point of strength. (Lurkers, is that correct?)
As far as resists go, until Midora-Lherok finds really high level resist all prefixes, it is probably better to stock up on individual resists, maybe using a storage character, if that is considered legit play, to keep all the extra items. They are cheaper to buy and easier to find. This is especially true, if Midora-Lherok goes the low AC mana shield route. That way she can max out her resistance to correspond to the danger on that lvl.
I believe that the above ideas would apply to the building any type of rogue.
Now for some tactical advice. If Midora-Lherok wants to specialize in ranged combat, and with the bow she has, I can understand why, then I think she is lacking in discovery spells, either in her spell book or on scrolls. Golem is the most valuable, not for his destructive capabilities but for searching for monsters that are not susceptible to fire. Guardian and Elemental are cheaper and can be used for any monsters susceptible to fire.
My mage makes good use of the latter two specials for combat as well, but that is because he has loads of mana to utilize (he cannot yet use Golem for combat, as that spell is way too mana expensive and is not yet at a high enough spell level).
I notice that Midora-Lherok doesn't have Flame Wave. I think that is smart as long as she is going for bow specialization. Firewall can perform the same defensive function and it is a lot cheaper. In addition, again if I am not mistaken, the Firewall spell level does not have to be much higher than level eight. Am I right; the only effect Slvl has on Firewall is duration? If a minute's duration is not enough, she is toast anyway.
In the caves, if memory serves, the monsters on any one level exhibit only one magic type attack. So try to max out that resistance.
Another technique that might prove useful, and not only against spitters, is based on stealth. Use your amulet of night as a weapon. By activating only a few monsters, using discovery spells and retreating behind a series of firewalls, your bow and healing potions should do the rest. Also, getting yourself in a corner with only a few monsters then using chain lightening or fireballs and having lots of full blue pots handy is another technique that works for me. Make use of the rivers of lava and choke points. With a rogue, chokepoints are extremely useful, as monsters can be killed at a distance, as they pass through the choke point one at a time.
The spitters always give me trouble. But they usually hide in the caves rather than in the lava fields, so it is possible to activate only a few using guardian. Just have your highest-level natural spell in the ready box and use the guardian scrolls that Midora stocked up. Also, a high-level golem or two works wonders. I also love sneak attacks. I set up my portal, not too far but far enough from a staircase. Then I retreat to through one hatch or the other, and after I have restocked, come down through the other hatch, and kill monsters before they are aware that I am there. Wash and repeat until there are no more.
Of course, I have only tested these ideas out in normal caves. And many of them will not work using the more difficult variants that I have been reading about.
You probably know all this already, but this way I can demonstrate that I am not strategically challenged, just mouse and keyboard challenged.
BTW - I thought your posts in the cheating vs. non-legit thread were very interesting and well thought out.
Malach_cha_Movis
:unsure: And that's what i think!
P.S. I started writing this when there were no responses and now there are two.
P.S.S. BTW - Most of these ideas are not my own. They are a collected assembledge of ideas, i reseached from other threads, other articles, and other websites. Then i tried them out and these are the ones that worked best for me.