06-05-2004, 12:47 PM
Since we are nearly ready to deal with elite areas, and in general some of the quests are demanding more teamwork, I thought it would be good to have a sub-thread to discuss group combat tactics. Sometimes when people try to explain these things from their perspective in game, it gets lost in the hectic muddle of the game. Here maybe we can take a little time to read and respond to each other's thoughts on the matter.
I'll start by organizing some of my thoughts and ideas by class:
Rogue- Yeah, that's me. I intend to take point when things get rough, but I don't plan on actually pulling most mobs. Rather I will usually be waiting in stealth for someone to pull the mob past me so that I can apply a garrote from behind. When we have to lure multiple humanoids, I can sap one, knocking it out for 25 seconds. That is not something I can do once the battle has started, so it's important that you give me the opportunity to do it when needed. Otherwise, my deal is pretty simple: stand behind the enemy and do a ton of damage.
Warriors - Especially in the instances, this is completely different from soloing as a warrior. If we pull one mob, one warrior has to taunt it. The other warrior would then be free to use battle stance. If pull more than one mob (with the full party), then both warriors need to go defensive and each taunt one (actually in this case the second warrior shouldn't need to taunt much since nobody will be attacking that mob, but will need to essentially stall the mob for as long as possible). Once you have bloodrage, having enough rage to taunt multiple times should not be an issue. The more you can taunt, the more aggressive and effective everyone else can be. When you don't have any tanking responsibilities, you play around quite a bit with the options in battle stance. Don't forget about hamstring, especially against mobs who run for help. Don't forget about your buffing skill either. This is a pretty heavily melee-oriented group, so having that power shout up helps not just you but 2-3 others as well.
Warlock - Maybe the best class to pull in this group, once we get aggro management down. The shaman could do it too, of course. Actually, they can both do it at the same time as long as communication is good about which mob is getting nuked. If we pull too many mobs for the warriors to handle, maybe the warlock is the next best class to stall one. If the voidwalker is up, this is an obvious choice... voidwalker stalls a mob, while everyone else (including the warlock) focuses on the primary target. If you go with imp (which for any other purpose than stalling may be the better choice) it would be harder... you'd have to pretty much devote yourself to casting fear on that enemy until the primary target dies. If the warriors are controlling all mobs, you are pretty much free to nuke things, curse things, and collect soulshards as needed.
Shaman - I really don't know much about this class. It's a safe candidate to pull mobs. Obviously the most important aspect with this party mix is keeping yourself alive (at least until level 20) and secondly keeping everyone else alive. I guess if you can succeed in doing that, we'll go far :lol: Otherwise, totems and dishing damage. If a tough mob is attacking you, it can be hard for you to heal yourself or others quickly, right? If that's the case, you should probably not try to tank unaccounted for mobs. I can do that with evasion if absolutely necessary. Better to focus on finishing whatever the warriors are fighting.
General thoughts - The idea with pulling (or at least my idea, most gamers don't seem to share it) is to bring the battle to the group, not the other way around. For a rogue to use backside attacks, this is especially important. Also, this applies even against ranged attackers. The person pulling a ranged attacker can run behind the group and keep running until the ranged attacker moves within melee range of the group (yes this really does work, as long as nobody else does something to draw aggro before the mob approaches the desired location). Now, this means the warlock, shaman, and possibly imp will get hits in before the warriors. When I play as a tanking warrior in that situation, I use bloodrage when I see the my caster teammates starting to cast. The when the mob I am responsible for gets close, it's one right click on the mob followed by spamming taunt until I get a few "Not enough rage" messages. This will be enough to lock the mob on you (for a moment) in spite of not having the first attack. Maybe at some point one of our warriors will invest in a ranged attack, but I don't think it is necessary.
Those are my ideas. Anyone else? Feel free to tell me all the stuff I am totally wrong about too :)
I'll start by organizing some of my thoughts and ideas by class:
Rogue- Yeah, that's me. I intend to take point when things get rough, but I don't plan on actually pulling most mobs. Rather I will usually be waiting in stealth for someone to pull the mob past me so that I can apply a garrote from behind. When we have to lure multiple humanoids, I can sap one, knocking it out for 25 seconds. That is not something I can do once the battle has started, so it's important that you give me the opportunity to do it when needed. Otherwise, my deal is pretty simple: stand behind the enemy and do a ton of damage.
Warriors - Especially in the instances, this is completely different from soloing as a warrior. If we pull one mob, one warrior has to taunt it. The other warrior would then be free to use battle stance. If pull more than one mob (with the full party), then both warriors need to go defensive and each taunt one (actually in this case the second warrior shouldn't need to taunt much since nobody will be attacking that mob, but will need to essentially stall the mob for as long as possible). Once you have bloodrage, having enough rage to taunt multiple times should not be an issue. The more you can taunt, the more aggressive and effective everyone else can be. When you don't have any tanking responsibilities, you play around quite a bit with the options in battle stance. Don't forget about hamstring, especially against mobs who run for help. Don't forget about your buffing skill either. This is a pretty heavily melee-oriented group, so having that power shout up helps not just you but 2-3 others as well.
Warlock - Maybe the best class to pull in this group, once we get aggro management down. The shaman could do it too, of course. Actually, they can both do it at the same time as long as communication is good about which mob is getting nuked. If we pull too many mobs for the warriors to handle, maybe the warlock is the next best class to stall one. If the voidwalker is up, this is an obvious choice... voidwalker stalls a mob, while everyone else (including the warlock) focuses on the primary target. If you go with imp (which for any other purpose than stalling may be the better choice) it would be harder... you'd have to pretty much devote yourself to casting fear on that enemy until the primary target dies. If the warriors are controlling all mobs, you are pretty much free to nuke things, curse things, and collect soulshards as needed.
Shaman - I really don't know much about this class. It's a safe candidate to pull mobs. Obviously the most important aspect with this party mix is keeping yourself alive (at least until level 20) and secondly keeping everyone else alive. I guess if you can succeed in doing that, we'll go far :lol: Otherwise, totems and dishing damage. If a tough mob is attacking you, it can be hard for you to heal yourself or others quickly, right? If that's the case, you should probably not try to tank unaccounted for mobs. I can do that with evasion if absolutely necessary. Better to focus on finishing whatever the warriors are fighting.
General thoughts - The idea with pulling (or at least my idea, most gamers don't seem to share it) is to bring the battle to the group, not the other way around. For a rogue to use backside attacks, this is especially important. Also, this applies even against ranged attackers. The person pulling a ranged attacker can run behind the group and keep running until the ranged attacker moves within melee range of the group (yes this really does work, as long as nobody else does something to draw aggro before the mob approaches the desired location). Now, this means the warlock, shaman, and possibly imp will get hits in before the warriors. When I play as a tanking warrior in that situation, I use bloodrage when I see the my caster teammates starting to cast. The when the mob I am responsible for gets close, it's one right click on the mob followed by spamming taunt until I get a few "Not enough rage" messages. This will be enough to lock the mob on you (for a moment) in spite of not having the first attack. Maybe at some point one of our warriors will invest in a ranged attack, but I don't think it is necessary.
Those are my ideas. Anyone else? Feel free to tell me all the stuff I am totally wrong about too :)