08-27-2003, 04:47 PM
Ahhh, the smell of toast. It's good to be back at the lounge after more than a year away. Nice to see you all.
Ignatz,
With all due respect, there is a way to "win" this argument, but no one has pointed it out. Certainly YOU cannot win the argument due to the fact that your position is indefensible.
There have been a number of reasonable points made about the history, etymology, and current meaning of the word in question. The most important aspect of of any discussion about language or words is the CONTEXT in which they are used. True enough, the word we're speaking about is used often in hip-hop circles, and amongst certain circles of friends.
It is possible that the word in question is regularly used at the offices of "The Source" magazine, or at the headquarters for FUBU clothing. In those cases, it isn't out of place. However, I seriously doubt that you would hear used at a mid-level manager meeting at IBM, Ford Motor Company, or Coca-Cola. It is out of place in areas where hip-hop is not the norm. If I used that word during a meeting at the company where I work, it would be perceived as offensive, regardless of my race, and regarless of the race of those in the room. For anyone who believes that African-Americans use that term all the time, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the case.
My question for you is, what made you think that this forum is the place for that type of language? You were trying to be funny. No one laughed. That's when you know that what you said is offensive. It's one thing to tell a dirty joke at a party, it's another thing altogether to tell it from the pulpit of a church. The exact same people that may laugh at your party would be aghast at church.
I don't take any offense at the word itself. Words only have power that one gives to them. Ignatz, you seem to have studied the history of the word that sparked this debate. I suggest you learn the meaning of two other words as well. They are "tact" and "taste".
Ignatz,
With all due respect, there is a way to "win" this argument, but no one has pointed it out. Certainly YOU cannot win the argument due to the fact that your position is indefensible.
There have been a number of reasonable points made about the history, etymology, and current meaning of the word in question. The most important aspect of of any discussion about language or words is the CONTEXT in which they are used. True enough, the word we're speaking about is used often in hip-hop circles, and amongst certain circles of friends.
It is possible that the word in question is regularly used at the offices of "The Source" magazine, or at the headquarters for FUBU clothing. In those cases, it isn't out of place. However, I seriously doubt that you would hear used at a mid-level manager meeting at IBM, Ford Motor Company, or Coca-Cola. It is out of place in areas where hip-hop is not the norm. If I used that word during a meeting at the company where I work, it would be perceived as offensive, regardless of my race, and regarless of the race of those in the room. For anyone who believes that African-Americans use that term all the time, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the case.
My question for you is, what made you think that this forum is the place for that type of language? You were trying to be funny. No one laughed. That's when you know that what you said is offensive. It's one thing to tell a dirty joke at a party, it's another thing altogether to tell it from the pulpit of a church. The exact same people that may laugh at your party would be aghast at church.
I don't take any offense at the word itself. Words only have power that one gives to them. Ignatz, you seem to have studied the history of the word that sparked this debate. I suggest you learn the meaning of two other words as well. They are "tact" and "taste".