Norway Killer gets 21-Years

[kandrathe]

There is no "anarchy" during the "dictatorship of the Proletarian" - such circumstances can only occur when the workers have full class consciousness, when in that case they know their class interests.

This type of rhetoric maybe works with your Marxist friends and professors. Your "revolution" rests on being understood by the average Teamster. Capitalists have nothing to worry about. Carry on.

There is no such thing as human nature. And even if there was, it is, at best, a social construct.

More denials and revisionist BS -- The sixth thesis on Feuerbach, and the determination of human nature by social relations -- Karl Marx You really should read what Marx wrote. If I were a solitary entity -- then even if there were a "human nature" it would be entirely my nature -- of course you need "a society" to encompass a "human nature". Wow. {hand wave} There is no such thing as Karl Marx. See, I can do it too. There is no such thing as a class struggle. There is no such thing as a proletariat... It just a word you use to label a group of people.

I found it rather humorous that Capitalism had a serious meltdown in 2008, the 160th birthday of the Communist Manifesto publication. Hehe.

Petty. Do you really revel in the misery of others? Your "enemies" are not the ones suffering.

"It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness" - Karl Marx

I love those "it is not A for B, it is B for A" statements. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".

Who said, "We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

No one said society or people are perfect - so why try and use a strawman argument? Communists don't seek a perfect society. Just a better one. Also, Capitalism and Democracy cannot co-exist - any system of class antagonisms cannot, by its very material circumstances, have democracy as an intrinsic feature.

A bottom-up Proletarian Revolution COULD lead to problems, as anything else, but that is dependent on the material conditions of the time - it has absolutely nothing to do with ideology. Again, you are looking at this in a completely wrong context - Idealism, and not through a scientific/material one.

My view is a pragmatic one. You are confused, because you are actually the idealist here. We have an imperfect society already. You are offering nothing better. The change you propose would be bloody. It depends on every person sharing your viewpoint and ideals -- which frankly will NEVER happen. It just takes one Stalin to muck it up and millions will die. And, we have the communist choice right now -- whether to act collectively, or sell it for money. By far, our choices have been transactional to trade what we have (including our labor) for money or property. Marx's ideas have been around for about 160 years. What societal experiments that were tried peaked 50 years ago, and are in decline.

Think what you will of my pursuits - but just because they haven't occurred yet doesn't mean they wont. That would be a fallacy of improbability. I'm sure Feudal Lords and King Louis XVI thought the French Revolution was quixotic and very unrealistic also.

Probably not. I don't think they thought about it much at all, hence why they lost their heads. And, in the chaos, the Jacobin mobs massacred thousands, including innocent women and children.

Just from this statement alone, I can tell you know very little about it, sorry to say. Most of what I have seen from you is the typical, Mccarthy era propaganda. "Communist nations".....this in itself is an oxymoron and demonstrates you have little understanding of Communism. There has never been any such thing as a Communist nation, nor can there be. Communism entails a classless/stateless/borderless society.

You assumed all that from just three sentences? You are a wonder.

The whole idea of "Socialism in one State" is Stalinist revisionism bullshit, and has nothing to do with Communism.

Because rather than look at actual history, we'll have to go along with how you perceive it really should have been.

I know about logical fallacies. You and most of the reactionaries on here use them all the time

It's always best to be inflammatory ALL THE TIME. It definitely rallies people to your cause.

"Reactionary: relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction; especially : ultraconservative in politics " -- in other words an insult you frequently use in an attempt to belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you. See POMPOUS.

There certainly are true Communists, no disagreement there. You are talking to one right now.

Please link your published and widely recognized manifesto, and then I will accord you due credit. I'm an artist. My sculptures are better than Michelangelo, really. You just need to take my word for it.

But that being said, just because there are true Communists doesn't mean a Communist society has ever existed. It would be like saying because there are "true Muslims" living in the United States, that we are Muslim nation. No, we aren't. The No-True Scotsman argument DOES NOT apply if the original meaning of something does not exist or is contradicted.

Since the USA was founded on Anglo, and Judeo-Christian foundations, it would be a gross inaccuracy.

The SU and China were never even Socialist, let alone Communist. Nor is Cuba. Or N. Korea. All of them have classes. All of them have heavy-handed States. And all of them live in a world with borders - there is no borderless societies based on the principles of Internationalism, which is a important component for Communists and Communism to exist materially.

If the USSR wasn't communist, then by the same reasoning, the USA isn't capitalist. There are merely capitalists living here. Again, you are confused. Antony Flew's original coining of the term was in reference to a murder. No true Scotsman would do such a thing. Ergo, do communists kill? Obviously, yes. Do Christian kill? Obviously, yes. You can claim that x, y, z were not "True" communist states, but they are claiming it and most people accept it as true. Surely, Catholics would love to disclaim the Spanish Inquisition as well. What good is denial?

Bob: Communism involves strong centralized states where a powerful ruling class dictates terms on others.
Bill: The definition of communism is "a classless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production." Since this is the standard definition of communism, it's impossible for you to be correct by definition.
Bob: NO TRUE SCOTSMAN!!!! LOLOLOLOL
Bill: You need to learn what that term means.

Bill is correct. Bob is not.

It would appear, according to Merriam-Webster, that both Bob and Bill do not know what they are talking about.

Bob's first statement is not what you said. You said communists don't kill, because there has never been a communist state. There are no true Scotsmen either. Christians didn't impose the Spanish Inquisition either, because a true Christian wouldn't twist Christ's teaching to torture or murder people. But, actually, they did and so did the communists.

ROFL. We don't just move to the end, and skip everything in between. Getting to the end this way is not possible. Your whole thought process is guided by Idealism, and not material circumstances. Materialism doesn't work that way.

I'm not going. You are the one who wants to change things. You go. Join, or start a commune. Then, when you are done with it, reflect on how it really is, rather than spouting off about things you've only read about. Me? Idealist. Naw. I'm a cynical pragmatist.