Norway Killer gets 21-Years

[FireIceTalon]

That force, would be the Proletarian itself. In other words, it is a bottom up, class conscience and grass roots revolution. See, even through these questions, I can see your lack of understanding/misconceptions about Communism, and Communists. Communists do not seek to use government as a means to "redistribute the wealth", and we understand wealth itself in a very different way from how most people think of it. Communists (and Anarchists), rather, want the ABOLITION of the state, as well as Capitalism itself. But using government to achieve Socialism would seem to imply we want to do this through a non-revolutionary process - also not the case. We will leave that to our Utopian Socialist and Social Democrat friends. A Marxist understands wealth to be much more than just income, assets, and investments. The fundamental aspect of wealth, from our POV, is the control to the means of production. "Communism deprives no man the right to appropriate the products of society, all it does is deprive him the right to exploit the labor of others by means of such appropriations" - Marx. Workers would have self-determination in a Socialist or a Communist society, especially the latter (though the former must occur first - unless you are an Anarchist, and that is where Anarchists and Marxist Communists disagree, but I digress). Under Capitalism, they do not.

Indeed, this society has not yet materialized (though Native Americans and other tribal groups had very Communistic-like societies without hierarchies even well before recorded history) - and it is probably a ways from doing so. But to say it is fantasy, and never will, is not only overly deterministic and short-sighted, but such statements are also probably guilty of a Nirvana fallacy and a Appeal to Improbability fallacy. I'm sure feudal lords, Divine Right Absolutist monarchs, and southern slave owners never thought they'd lose their power either, but they did: they never could have predicted the change in material conditions that culminated in the formation of a new society Every previous system of class antagonisms has failed, every so-called Empire that perpetuated these class antagonisms has failed, there is no reason to believe Capitalism and its ruling class of CEO's, hedge-fund managers, banker tycoons, and the politicians and military industrial complex that upholds it will be an exception. "Revolutions are the locomotives of history" - Marx. The material conditions allowing for its destruction have to be in place before revolution can occur, but it is probably more a matter of when than if. But more importantly, there is no reason to WANT it to be an exception - Socialists don't desire to perpetuate or simplify class antagonist societies, we desire to eliminate them completely. Then we don't have to be Socialists anymore, or talk about politics ever again.