A disservice?

[swirly]

I've been wondering if it is a disservice to play with people who are experiencing Normal for the first time.

Let the other person make their own decisions about their feelings.

My worry is that they might not be able to make an informed decision. When I was first in Act 2 Normal and somebody asked if I wanted company with one of the characters they have in that level range, I'd have had no clue that those characters can be so overpowered due to gems being passed down. (I still did decide to play through solo anyway though) I don't mind the gear part too much cause that has level requirements. You can be amazingly strong with just good gear, but I feel like gems really are what make the difference so huge. I suppose you are right though in that I should let them decide. I just have to make sure to inform them that despite being the same level as them, the character is over twinked and so they might want to consider that in their decision. Yeah... I think that is the right option. Let them decide their own feelings, but be sure they doing it from an informed position.

I think that this revulsion for the Auction House comes from the bad experiences with Diablo I and II with dupers, where you couldn't determine if an item you're trading for was a fake or legitimate item.

Now, Swirly made a comment over Mumble about how he would never buy something off the auction house, because he would feel that his character hadn't earned it. (Feel free to correct me, Swirly, if I didn't express that well).

There are many issues that play into this for me, but the fake/dupe issue isn't one of them. It would have never crossed my mind to even worry about if an item came about because of dupes or not in D2. I just didn't play multiplayer or deal with others enough for that even to be a consideration for me. In D2 the issue for me was simply that I have very strong anti-social tendencies. I didn't play with a single Lurker back then. It was strictly a couple of real life friends. I lurked on here and read things like TD's Werewolf guide and gradually started posting a bit. Then WoW came out and I again only played with people I already knew for a while. I was aware of Treesh and GG playing on Terenas, but I didn't actively know them and it took a good length of time before I worked up the nerve to make a character there and contact them about a guild invite. It was probably only in the most recent expansion that I even bothered to start buying mats off the AH cause to me that was still social in my mind and so to be avoided. Even with somebody like GG who I've known for many years now I still have turned down meeting in life cause I have these anti-social tendencies. That is actually a decision I've regretted and am currently more open to, but I can't even promise that won't swing back the other way based on mood. My point with all of this is to show how strong my anti-social tendencies are. So in terms of D3 I can't see me ever joining a public game. MAYBE if it me and 2 others so it is just one random person, but even then only if the other 2 really push me into it. I'd really rather just play with 3 than bother with that extra person. If I'm on my own I will enjoy the game much much more just playing solo than I will with 3 other people that I don't already know. Even if they are great players and friendly... I still will simply not enjoy it because of how I am. Which I'm not saying is a good thing btw, but just saying it is how it is. So the AH in D3 feels like the same sort of thing. There is a socialness to it that makes me step back and go "no way!" I'm sure I'll eventually break down and use it, but it will take quite a while for things to chip away at that gut reaction I have just based on how my personality is.

So the socialness of it is one big issue with it for me. You didn't misquote me though. I do feel that buying an item off the AH would feel unearned to me. I think that exchanging gems seems fine, but buying an upgrade somehow doesn't. When I say that I do want to clarify that it doesn't bother me in the slightest that other people do it or that I would even be playing with them with them using that gear. It is purely a person thing. I'm just going to feel much better about an item that I killed a mob for than one I've bought. This is actually true for given items too. I feel much better about an item I found myself rather than one that somebody else found and gave to me. Even if it happens while we are grouped together. It isn't enough of a difference to make me not use the item and my memory is bad enough that in an hour or two I'll probably even forget where the item came from and so it'll be like any other. There is still that slight lowering of the feeling associated with the item though. The more removed it gets the stronger that feeling gets. So an item found by somebody else while grouped with me is a very slight lowering of the feeling. An item found by somebody else I know while not grouped with me is an even further lowering. An item found by somebody I don't know is even further. Then an item found by somebody else that I actually have to pay for is even worse. The simple act of having to pay for it actually lowers it for me. If the item is given then there is a value in that act of giving. So the act of paying is a negative for me.

So then once you reach that paying stage there enters in other factors too. For instance, the value of gold. If I am low on gold like I currently am and decide to spend it on an item then that item might have a decent value/feeling to me because I felt like I had to really work to gain that gold and so I gave up something of value to get the item. On the other hand if I am overflowing in gold from selling other items then any item I buy with that gold is going to have a very low value to me cause I didn't give anything of value for it.

There is just a scale to it all. Where each option is a step down and different people are going to draw different lines as to what is acceptable to them. Heck different people are going to even draw different placements for where the bits of the scale are. Like you said, you feel that selling your existing stuff and using the results to buy other stuff is an accomplishment for you since you earned the original stuff. So you weigh that differently than I do.

For me the line is likely at the people I know point. I don't care how they got it really. If it was in another game or even if it was something they bought. I'm fine as long as it comes from them. Coming from somebody I don't know would be alright if we were in the same game, but that won't happen often with my anti-socialness. So thus the cut off for me is around that people I don't know that aren't in my game level. An interesting point for me to consider is if it was a person I know who wanted to sell me an item. I think I would likely decline. If somebody had an item that dropped and offered it for me at half the gold they would put it up on the AH for I think I would tell them to just go ahead and Ah it. For me the act of having to pay for it pushes it under that acceptable line. If giving to me is worth less to them than the gold they would gain from the AH then I don't really want the item. Maybe this will change nearer to end game if there is some really good item I've been craving for a long time, but as a general policy this is how I feel.

Yet another aspect to the AH decision for me is the hassle part. The first time I found a rare I couldn't use I debated trying to AH it. I even got as far as opening the screen. Then I just froze. I didn't know what to list it for. To figure that out I'd have to either see what it vendered for, what others were selling it for, or just some sort of thing like that. That extra hassle combined with my general anti-social not wanting to deal with other people thing just made me decide to salvage the item and move on. At that point I wasn't even playing with you guys so I didn't even hold it for others. Now I realize that the more you do it the more of an idea you have for the cost of things and so that hassle goes away. It is a barrier to entry though and enough of one that combined with all my other quirks makes me turn away.

Moving on to the issue of passing gear down. GG mentioned challenge and along those lines I'm really starting to question if I want to be keeping gear for other characters I might play. It overpowers them so much that in some ways it actually trivializes the act of playing the game. Do I want to rush new characters I make through a bunch of content to get to later bits or do I want to really experience the content as I go and feel like each character is earning their path. I'm really starting to debate this. I feel like for an existing high level character like my Witch Doctor that I would want to rush through the content if he died. I'd be fine with making a new Witch Doctor, twinking it, and getting back to where I was as quick as possible. Making a new character though? I'm not so sure. I'm seriously debating deleting my existing Barbarian just because I have such twinked gear on him that he destroys things and I don't feel like I'm really earning his level. So there is the possibility that I might offer up all the twinked gear I have to people and remake new lower characters with only using what they find. Keeping an eye out for what type of gems are dropping and only using that quality. So that I feel like I am really earning the level they get to. It just is starting to feel like a cheat to me to get a Barb to nightmare purely based off the strength of handed down stuff instead of off of my play and what he finds.

So yeah... I have a lot going through my mind right now about all of these type of topics.