Spangles left her former guild because of corrupt looting practices. She formed a new guild with a group of friends. We can field ten guildies for a raid, but heroic raids require ten or more invited guests (pugs). Our raid leader has a fat Rolodex of good players of long standing, so the raids are usually successful & fun.
Keeping them fun requires quick and easy loot distribution. If the guild grows sufficiently to field an heroic raid we will probably adopt an EPGP strategy, meanwhile we roll dice. We need safeguards to prevent greedy behavior and resultant loot fights.
The guild officers talked over the complications arising from dual spec, and I wrote these guidelines.
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I haven't seen any general discussion of the dual spec looting issue. It is going to be a problem until some conventions are adopted. The most complicated case is the guild raid with pugs. Supposing we instituted a system based entirely on the dice, with no "loot council" decisions at all.
We could institute consecutive mainspec/offspec/nospec rolls, the last roll being disenchant prevention. You can roll mainspec or offspec or nospec. You can win one mainspec roll, one offspec roll, and one nospec rolls per raid, that's it. There is no weighing for loot quality, tier or whatever. Everyone gets 3 pieces max, no exceptions, the rest gets sharded. Better to shard loot than endure loot fights.
Mainspec/offspec characterization is the problem. Who decides what is main/off for a player? Would a boomkin refuse to heal a fight if this prevented him from rolling mainspec on a dps item? You can threaten to gkick a member from the guild, but you have no traction if he is a pug and you need him to finish the raid. Suppose then that main/off/no are not related to the function of the raider, but just names for roll1/roll2/roll3, respectively.
A worst-case scenario: the Surge Needle ring drops, every tank, rogue & hunter in the raid rolls mainspec. A tank wins it on roll1 for his dps offspec, beating out the melee. This is Bad because a rogue would use the ring more often than the tank. This Badness is offset by (1) no ambiguity in the rules, no opportunity for argument, no loot fights, (2) more dps when the tank isn't tanking, (3) in the long run everyone who wants it will have the ring.
Point 2 is trivial when a tank puts on dps gear without respeccing ("they say a monkey in silk is still a monkey"). It is not trivial when the tank can respec instantly and provide enough dps to prevent a 2% wipe. A more important example is when hybrids spec in/out of healing. If you have three or four respecs at every fight, gearing offspec becomes a major tactic for fine-tuning difficult boss fights. The importance of this new tactic trumps a rogue's automatic priority on a Surge Needle ring.
The rules are simple to list for the raid:
1. Each item will get a mainspec roll, an offspec roll if nobody rolls mainspec, and a nospec roll if nobody rolls mainspec or offspec.
2. You can win only one item each with a mainspec, offspec or nospec roll for a maximum of three items per raid.
3. You may not win more than one item per boss.
4. All items are equivalent: tier, armor, weapons, offhands, whatever.
5. BOE items won mainspec or offspec are equipped immediately. They may be sharded or sold by a nospec winner.
6. Illegal or mistaken rolls will be voided by the lootmaster.
Illegal rolls have a strict definition: someone rolls main/off/no in a category where they have already won an item.
Mistaken rolls are for items that the winner can't possibly equip: a mage rolls on plate, or a 2h sword. The definition could be broadened to include stats a class can't use, but this might preclude a dps warrior winning leather, for example.
This is the simplest system for pug raiding that I can think of. We have to consider the issues before we become engulfed in dual-spec looting hassles.
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We have been raiding since 3.1 with this scheme, so far without major complications. We use two rolls per item instead of three.
There are still those who Don't Get It ("why did the tank get Betrayer of Humanity?"). However our pugs tend to be well geared members of big guilds who are just out for fun, which makes things simpler.
But anything that can be disputed or corrupted will be. I welcome comments on topic: looting rules for dual spec, dice rolls only, no DKP.
Keeping them fun requires quick and easy loot distribution. If the guild grows sufficiently to field an heroic raid we will probably adopt an EPGP strategy, meanwhile we roll dice. We need safeguards to prevent greedy behavior and resultant loot fights.
The guild officers talked over the complications arising from dual spec, and I wrote these guidelines.
_____________________________________________
I haven't seen any general discussion of the dual spec looting issue. It is going to be a problem until some conventions are adopted. The most complicated case is the guild raid with pugs. Supposing we instituted a system based entirely on the dice, with no "loot council" decisions at all.
We could institute consecutive mainspec/offspec/nospec rolls, the last roll being disenchant prevention. You can roll mainspec or offspec or nospec. You can win one mainspec roll, one offspec roll, and one nospec rolls per raid, that's it. There is no weighing for loot quality, tier or whatever. Everyone gets 3 pieces max, no exceptions, the rest gets sharded. Better to shard loot than endure loot fights.
Mainspec/offspec characterization is the problem. Who decides what is main/off for a player? Would a boomkin refuse to heal a fight if this prevented him from rolling mainspec on a dps item? You can threaten to gkick a member from the guild, but you have no traction if he is a pug and you need him to finish the raid. Suppose then that main/off/no are not related to the function of the raider, but just names for roll1/roll2/roll3, respectively.
A worst-case scenario: the Surge Needle ring drops, every tank, rogue & hunter in the raid rolls mainspec. A tank wins it on roll1 for his dps offspec, beating out the melee. This is Bad because a rogue would use the ring more often than the tank. This Badness is offset by (1) no ambiguity in the rules, no opportunity for argument, no loot fights, (2) more dps when the tank isn't tanking, (3) in the long run everyone who wants it will have the ring.
Point 2 is trivial when a tank puts on dps gear without respeccing ("they say a monkey in silk is still a monkey"). It is not trivial when the tank can respec instantly and provide enough dps to prevent a 2% wipe. A more important example is when hybrids spec in/out of healing. If you have three or four respecs at every fight, gearing offspec becomes a major tactic for fine-tuning difficult boss fights. The importance of this new tactic trumps a rogue's automatic priority on a Surge Needle ring.
The rules are simple to list for the raid:
1. Each item will get a mainspec roll, an offspec roll if nobody rolls mainspec, and a nospec roll if nobody rolls mainspec or offspec.
2. You can win only one item each with a mainspec, offspec or nospec roll for a maximum of three items per raid.
3. You may not win more than one item per boss.
4. All items are equivalent: tier, armor, weapons, offhands, whatever.
5. BOE items won mainspec or offspec are equipped immediately. They may be sharded or sold by a nospec winner.
6. Illegal or mistaken rolls will be voided by the lootmaster.
Illegal rolls have a strict definition: someone rolls main/off/no in a category where they have already won an item.
Mistaken rolls are for items that the winner can't possibly equip: a mage rolls on plate, or a 2h sword. The definition could be broadened to include stats a class can't use, but this might preclude a dps warrior winning leather, for example.
This is the simplest system for pug raiding that I can think of. We have to consider the issues before we become engulfed in dual-spec looting hassles.
_____________________________________________
We have been raiding since 3.1 with this scheme, so far without major complications. We use two rolls per item instead of three.
There are still those who Don't Get It ("why did the tank get Betrayer of Humanity?"). However our pugs tend to be well geared members of big guilds who are just out for fun, which makes things simpler.
But anything that can be disputed or corrupted will be. I welcome comments on topic: looting rules for dual spec, dice rolls only, no DKP.
![[Image: spangles_sig_3.jpg]](https://home.comcast.net/~swesson5/spangles_sig_3.jpg)