patch 2.0.10 notes on the PTR

[TheDragoon]

I have to aggre with this. Stating that warriors bring buffs/debuffs that are valuable to a group when not tanking is like saying bringing a holy paladin to a group are valuable for only buffs, but not healing. If a protection warrior that isn't tanking there isn't an single class of any other spec that wouldn't be more usefull

The buffs that warriors bring are the same regardless of what they are doing. The fact that you need 2 warriors to have both the +health (which I think ima_nerd is not valuing enough) and +ap buffs (which is awesome) just means that they will certainly be useful. Add in the fact that prot warrior DPS has been vastly improved and I do not believe that the situation is as grim as you portray it.

This doesn't even include aspects of a protection warrior outside group PvE. They suck at solo stuff (sure some warriors say they can grind protection, and I've tried. I tried grinding in DPS gear DW and with a shield. I tried in tank gear. It sucks. It is a shadow of what grinding is like arms or fury.) They suck at PvP. I'd like to see a class of any other build that is as worthless at PvP.

So protection warriors give up 2/3 of the game so they can tank. And your saying that feral druids (which do great grinding and in PvP) and protection paladins (don't really know how they do grinding, or in PvP. But I can't imagine it is worse than protection warriors) should be just as good.

Grinding ease has clearly never been part of Blizzard's equation (how else would you explain hunters and warlocks versus things like a holy priest) so I think you can throw that out of this argument entirely. Just because you don't feel you are powerful enough in grinding or PvP doesn't mean you can get away with throwing out a blanket statement like saying all protection warriors are useless for all of those instances. But perception is everything, isn't it? Given that my initial testing didn't really jive with your first point and that I have found plenty of people who enjoy protection warriors in PvP and feel they are quite powerful, it really seems like you're falling into the grass is greener trap. :)

And blizzard has stated that this is wrong. That's why they are making these changes. They have also stated they want feral druids and protection paladins to be able tanks. If for some reason druids can't tank because of these changes I'd expect some buffs back.

Actually, what Blizzard said was that Druid DPS was too much while in bear form, and it was. I would hope that they will be given back a large portion of the threat, however, or bear tanking will be relegated to a definitive second class citizen status.