07-13-2006, 04:08 AM
We're discussing two different issues here -
Is the new AV more fun?
and
Are the rewards appropriate for the difficulty and time required?
I think it's more fun. In the last week on Khaz'goroth I've had some race games, some games that had skirmishing all over the map, some games whith big clashes of the raids and decisive use of summoned units. Even games that start as a race don't always end as one, with the side behind in the race hearthing back, saving their general and fighting back along the map. It's been far more interesting than the old games I had there.
To answer your question no, none of us had extensive raid experience prior to starting (this is what I meant when I said we were almost entirely new to raiding. A couple of us had been as far as Garr beforehand filling out other guild runs, none further (though we did pick up a couple of experienced raiders later). I don't think four months to clear is unreasonably fast - a month shaking down to a regular group, a month getting Magmadar farmable then averaging a new boss a week isn't exactly blistering progress.
To me one run can mean either a clear or a session depending on context. If of your 60 players 30 come every week and the other 30 once every three, those that come every week will gear up faster. We were learning the instance but I had good attendance with rare classes (and my total includes some of the crafted items that you prefer to disregard). I'd do better still if I went back to my old guild with an alt or accepted the invite I have from an AQ clearing guild; if I want AV rewards on an alt I need to do the entire grind again.
I enjoyed getting my AV epics more than those from MC. It took me somewhat longer to do per upgrade but it was far more interesting (not that it's hard to beat shadowbolt spam, chain healing a tank or tanking a single mob) and didn't require scheduling in advance.
I feel Naxx was a mistake - no group should feel left out in the cold by the devs and the non-raiding population is needing new content far more than raiders. By Bliz's own numbers about 15% of players have beaten BWL, I doubt the percentage than have Cthun down is higher. They've chosen to cater to that group instead of the other 85% of their player base... I don't think they got six million subscribers on the strength of their raid game and other developers are starting to target the wider market now that WOW has shown it exists. For instance the Conan devs have said their PVE content will never require more than ten players because it won't feel heroic - and whatever the games other flaws that's a very attractive statement to someone like myself.
Is the new AV more fun?
and
Are the rewards appropriate for the difficulty and time required?
I think it's more fun. In the last week on Khaz'goroth I've had some race games, some games that had skirmishing all over the map, some games whith big clashes of the raids and decisive use of summoned units. Even games that start as a race don't always end as one, with the side behind in the race hearthing back, saving their general and fighting back along the map. It's been far more interesting than the old games I had there.
To answer your question no, none of us had extensive raid experience prior to starting (this is what I meant when I said we were almost entirely new to raiding. A couple of us had been as far as Garr beforehand filling out other guild runs, none further (though we did pick up a couple of experienced raiders later). I don't think four months to clear is unreasonably fast - a month shaking down to a regular group, a month getting Magmadar farmable then averaging a new boss a week isn't exactly blistering progress.
To me one run can mean either a clear or a session depending on context. If of your 60 players 30 come every week and the other 30 once every three, those that come every week will gear up faster. We were learning the instance but I had good attendance with rare classes (and my total includes some of the crafted items that you prefer to disregard). I'd do better still if I went back to my old guild with an alt or accepted the invite I have from an AQ clearing guild; if I want AV rewards on an alt I need to do the entire grind again.
I enjoyed getting my AV epics more than those from MC. It took me somewhat longer to do per upgrade but it was far more interesting (not that it's hard to beat shadowbolt spam, chain healing a tank or tanking a single mob) and didn't require scheduling in advance.
I feel Naxx was a mistake - no group should feel left out in the cold by the devs and the non-raiding population is needing new content far more than raiders. By Bliz's own numbers about 15% of players have beaten BWL, I doubt the percentage than have Cthun down is higher. They've chosen to cater to that group instead of the other 85% of their player base... I don't think they got six million subscribers on the strength of their raid game and other developers are starting to target the wider market now that WOW has shown it exists. For instance the Conan devs have said their PVE content will never require more than ten players because it won't feel heroic - and whatever the games other flaws that's a very attractive statement to someone like myself.