05-17-2003, 01:12 AM
[/lurk]
Your numbers have a mistake, and there are a couple of other issues that you didn't address, Growler.
You used the lower limit of slvl 22 for the 1.09 skill, but the lower limit of slvl 23 for the 1.10 version.
The two other issues that need to be addressed pertain to the difference between the min and max. In 1.09, the difference was always 8. In the screenie the difference is 40 at slvl 22. But more significantly, the difference is 43 at slvl 23. So unless something very wierd is happening behind the scenes, from slvl 22 to 23, the max range is being increased slightly more than the min range.
Now then, the minimum synergy bonus is +49%, unless Teeth has an individual bonus, because with slvl 9 skills the most +skills to the entire tree is +8. So:
Base Skill =
Teeth: 5
Bone Wall: 1
Bone Prison: 0 (?)
Bone Spirit: 1
= 7 * 7% = +49%
419 * 1.49 = 624
446 * 1.49 = 664.54 = 664 if truncated
454 * 1.49 = 676
483 * 1.49 = 719.67 = 719 if truncated
So at slvl 22: 419-446 and slvl 23: 454-483. That's a +35-37 a level.
Projecting backward all the way to level 1 would get a negative result, but that's not surprising because likely the +dmg per slvl changes at slvls 8 and 16.
So projecting to slvl 16:
slvl 22 - 16 = 6
419 - 35 * 6 = 209
446 - 37 * 6 = 224
= 209-224 at slvl 16
A highly speculative but not too unreasonable belief is that Blizzard would have ONLY changed Bone Spear at the 8/16 breakpoints. I.E. that at slvl 8 with no synergies Bone Spear will be the same as in 1.09. That's 72-80 at slvl 8. Subtracting that from the projected slvl 16 and dividing by 8 would give the per level damage bonuses for the middle tier.
(209 - 72) / 8 = 17.125
(224 - 80) / 8 = 18
It doesn't seem likely that it'd be increasing by 17 and 1/8, so the final change I'll make to this guess is that slvl 1 got changed to 17-24, rather than 16
-24 as it is now, so then slvl 8 would be 73-80, and the +dmg per level from slvl 8-16 would be 17-18. (But, really, it seems more likely that the synergy bonus is something else than that Blizzard made that particular minor change.)
So, if the synergy bonus is indeed +49% in the screenshot, my prediction for the skill is:
for slvl 1-8:
min dmg:
9 + slvl*8
max dmg:
16 + slvl*8
for slvl 9-16:
min dmg:
73 + (slvl-8)*17
max dmg:
80 + (slvl-8)*18
for slvl 17+:
min dmg:
209 + [slvl-16]*35
max dmg:
224 + [slvl-16]*37
But that's trying the minimum value, which is going to give the highest base skill numbers.
------------------
Well, after having glanced at the version of this thread on diabloii.net, the general belief seems to be that Bone Spirit isn't slvl 9 in the screenshot, that it is two digits, and that Bone Prison is one digit. One person is sure that Bone Spirit is 28. Bone Prison's number appears to be blue-tinted, so it isn't zero. So if +skills = +8, Bone Prison must be 9.
So:
Teeth - 13
Bone Wall - 9
Bone Prison - 9?
Bone Spirit - 28?
+skills = +8?
That's a base of 5 + 1 + 1 + 20 = 27 * 7% = +189%
I won't write out all the math again just for these different numbers, but that gets:
slvl 22: 216-230
slvl 23: 234-249
or +18-19 per slvl.
Projected at slvl 16: 108-116. That's 28-28 less than 1.09 slvl 16 (136-144). Why? Probably this "nerf" is to balance out the fact that you can easily have a +100% synergy bonus when first getting Bone Spear. Since Bone Spear is already supposed to be fairly well balanced for Normal difficulty, a slight nerf was needed. Given that the difference is 28, the formula that seems to fit the best is the same slvl 1 dmg, +4 per slvl up to slvl 8, then +8 per slvl from slvl 9-16. So:
slvl 1: 16-24
slvl 20: 180-192
slvl 1-8:
min: 12 + 4*slvl
max: 20 + 4*slvl
slvl 9-16:
min: 44 + 8*(slvl - 8)
max: 52 + 8*(slvl - 8)
slvl 17+:
min: 108 + 18*(slvl - 16)
max: 116 + 19*(slvl - 16)
I predict that this is the exact formula for 1.10 Bone Spear. The numbers come out so well that I'd be surprised if this wasn't correct. Many arbitrary choices for synergy percentages can't even get the numbers shown on the screenshot without fractional base damage, much less give a estimated slvl 16 with exactly 8 dmg difference between min and max.
For example: if the synergy bonus is +56% (8*7%), then whether the base min dmg at slvl 23 is:
433, then 433 * 1.56 = 675.48
434, then 434 * 1.56 = 677.04
So there is no integer that, when multiplied by 1.56, will get 676 (nor 675.5-676.99, so it doesn't matter whether you round or truncate the fractional part).
- Dagni
[lurk]
Your numbers have a mistake, and there are a couple of other issues that you didn't address, Growler.
You used the lower limit of slvl 22 for the 1.09 skill, but the lower limit of slvl 23 for the 1.10 version.
The two other issues that need to be addressed pertain to the difference between the min and max. In 1.09, the difference was always 8. In the screenie the difference is 40 at slvl 22. But more significantly, the difference is 43 at slvl 23. So unless something very wierd is happening behind the scenes, from slvl 22 to 23, the max range is being increased slightly more than the min range.
Now then, the minimum synergy bonus is +49%, unless Teeth has an individual bonus, because with slvl 9 skills the most +skills to the entire tree is +8. So:
Base Skill =
Teeth: 5
Bone Wall: 1
Bone Prison: 0 (?)
Bone Spirit: 1
= 7 * 7% = +49%
419 * 1.49 = 624
446 * 1.49 = 664.54 = 664 if truncated
454 * 1.49 = 676
483 * 1.49 = 719.67 = 719 if truncated
So at slvl 22: 419-446 and slvl 23: 454-483. That's a +35-37 a level.
Projecting backward all the way to level 1 would get a negative result, but that's not surprising because likely the +dmg per slvl changes at slvls 8 and 16.
So projecting to slvl 16:
slvl 22 - 16 = 6
419 - 35 * 6 = 209
446 - 37 * 6 = 224
= 209-224 at slvl 16
A highly speculative but not too unreasonable belief is that Blizzard would have ONLY changed Bone Spear at the 8/16 breakpoints. I.E. that at slvl 8 with no synergies Bone Spear will be the same as in 1.09. That's 72-80 at slvl 8. Subtracting that from the projected slvl 16 and dividing by 8 would give the per level damage bonuses for the middle tier.
(209 - 72) / 8 = 17.125
(224 - 80) / 8 = 18
It doesn't seem likely that it'd be increasing by 17 and 1/8, so the final change I'll make to this guess is that slvl 1 got changed to 17-24, rather than 16
-24 as it is now, so then slvl 8 would be 73-80, and the +dmg per level from slvl 8-16 would be 17-18. (But, really, it seems more likely that the synergy bonus is something else than that Blizzard made that particular minor change.)
So, if the synergy bonus is indeed +49% in the screenshot, my prediction for the skill is:
for slvl 1-8:
min dmg:
9 + slvl*8
max dmg:
16 + slvl*8
for slvl 9-16:
min dmg:
73 + (slvl-8)*17
max dmg:
80 + (slvl-8)*18
for slvl 17+:
min dmg:
209 + [slvl-16]*35
max dmg:
224 + [slvl-16]*37
But that's trying the minimum value, which is going to give the highest base skill numbers.
------------------
Well, after having glanced at the version of this thread on diabloii.net, the general belief seems to be that Bone Spirit isn't slvl 9 in the screenshot, that it is two digits, and that Bone Prison is one digit. One person is sure that Bone Spirit is 28. Bone Prison's number appears to be blue-tinted, so it isn't zero. So if +skills = +8, Bone Prison must be 9.
So:
Teeth - 13
Bone Wall - 9
Bone Prison - 9?
Bone Spirit - 28?
+skills = +8?
That's a base of 5 + 1 + 1 + 20 = 27 * 7% = +189%
I won't write out all the math again just for these different numbers, but that gets:
slvl 22: 216-230
slvl 23: 234-249
or +18-19 per slvl.
Projected at slvl 16: 108-116. That's 28-28 less than 1.09 slvl 16 (136-144). Why? Probably this "nerf" is to balance out the fact that you can easily have a +100% synergy bonus when first getting Bone Spear. Since Bone Spear is already supposed to be fairly well balanced for Normal difficulty, a slight nerf was needed. Given that the difference is 28, the formula that seems to fit the best is the same slvl 1 dmg, +4 per slvl up to slvl 8, then +8 per slvl from slvl 9-16. So:
slvl 1: 16-24
slvl 20: 180-192
slvl 1-8:
min: 12 + 4*slvl
max: 20 + 4*slvl
slvl 9-16:
min: 44 + 8*(slvl - 8)
max: 52 + 8*(slvl - 8)
slvl 17+:
min: 108 + 18*(slvl - 16)
max: 116 + 19*(slvl - 16)
I predict that this is the exact formula for 1.10 Bone Spear. The numbers come out so well that I'd be surprised if this wasn't correct. Many arbitrary choices for synergy percentages can't even get the numbers shown on the screenshot without fractional base damage, much less give a estimated slvl 16 with exactly 8 dmg difference between min and max.
For example: if the synergy bonus is +56% (8*7%), then whether the base min dmg at slvl 23 is:
433, then 433 * 1.56 = 675.48
434, then 434 * 1.56 = 677.04
So there is no integer that, when multiplied by 1.56, will get 676 (nor 675.5-676.99, so it doesn't matter whether you round or truncate the fractional part).
- Dagni
[lurk]