New Raid Dungeon

[Jarulf]

Got this link from Slashdot to NY times were supposedly a new raid dungeon is revealed....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/28/sports/o...=rssnyt&emc=rss

For those not going there, there is appearantly the scourge invasion, a new world event.

[Alram]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

In terms of the number of hours I play, I am far from a casual gamer, but I have never been in a huge raid. A better distinction would be solo-5 man play vs. 40 man raids. Blizzard is basically saying that the only way content can be challenging and provide Uber loot is if it takes 40 people to do it. Moreover if "the casual gamer" wants more out of WoW he will have to buy the expansion.

Do they ever consider quests that Require a maximum of 1 or 2 and are challenging and interesting?

[TheLuminaire]

Yeah, Necropolis Naxxramas just sounds cool. And the thought that it'll be huge, bigger than UC... :w00t:

[Zarathustra]

Do they ever consider quests that Require a maximum of 1 or 2 and are challenging and interesting?
[right][snapback]100394[/snapback][/right]

I think they answered this concern well in the interview by saying the loot should scale in relation to the power of the enemy. A 1 or 2 man quest should never have a reward on par with a raid quest.

As for content for solo or 5-man parties, I completely agree. I look forward to seeing more of this so-called "casual" content added. But it will never be as challenging as an instanced raid enemy. The closest we have to such an encounter would be the priest and hunter epic quests.

[MongoJerry]

Do they ever consider quests that Require a maximum of 1 or 2 and are challenging and interesting?

From comments that I have read, it does sound like they are strongly considering such ideas. One comment that has been mentioned is that they're looking in to ways to make questing viable and important at level 60. Right now, vast stretches of the Eastern Plaguelands, Winterspring, and Silithus are ignored simply because by the time people get to levels to do those quests, they're already level 60 or are already running the more lucerative high level 5- and 10-man dungeons. We'll have to see what ideas they come up with to solve this problem.

Also note that the idea of adding 20-man dungeons like Zul'Gurub and the 20-man AQ dungeon is to allow not quite so high powered guilds to be able to also experience high end content. I know that they don't cover the truly casual player, but they do help the semi-casual player.

Finally, I've heard rumblings of some new small party dungeons that may be released in the coming months.

Will all the problems with the game at level 60 be solved before the Expansion comes out? Probably not, but I can say that Blizzard definitely sees the problem and are thinking of ways to solve the situation.

Edit. I happened to notice this sticky thread on Blizzard's general forum on this topic:

https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...neral&t=6279154

[Artega]

Do they ever consider quests that Require a maximum of 1 or 2 and are challenging and interesting?
[right][snapback]100394[/snapback][/right]

Probably not. Why spend possibly hundreds of work-hours refining and implementing a one- or two-man quest (chain) that can't be repeated, or likely won't be repeated frequently?

It makes more sense to spend those same work-hours towards the creation of a raid dungeon (either the 20- or 40-man variety), since those can take over a month to get to farmable status, and they're more replayable due to the loot drops.

Remember, WoW is a business, not a game :)

[fractaled]

Lots of "if"s "maybe"s "might"s "rumbling"s and "thinking"s in there.

7 months now since the last 5-man dungeon. In which time they've added 2 40s, and 2 20s. I'll believe it when I see it :)

They obviously know their customer base better than I, so I wonder what they know that I don't. Maybe people are content to roll alts. It takes time to get 5 60s for "casual" players. Maybe the BGs are entertaining enough. Although getting rolled over by twinks and purples doesn't seem that fun.

[fractaled]

Probably not.  Why spend possibly hundreds of work-hours refining and implementing a one- or two-man quest (chain) that can't be repeated, or likely won't be repeated frequently?

It makes more sense to spend those same work-hours towards the creation of a raid dungeon (either the 20- or 40-man variety), since those can take over a month to get to farmable status, and they're more replayable due to the loot drops.
[right][snapback]100406[/snapback][/right]

They've shown a remarkable ability to construct gameplay that takes months of effort to achieve rewards. I.e. raid instances, PvP reputation/honor, other reputation, "world" events, crafting (maybe), and leveling. I imagine they can come up with some way to make a 1-2 person month long quest.

[Warlock]

Lots of "if"s "maybe"s "might"s "rumbling"s and "thinking"s in there.

7 months now since the last 5-man dungeon. In which time they've added 2 40s, and 2 20s. I'll believe it when I see it :)

They obviously know their customer base better than I, so I wonder what they know that I don't. Maybe people are content to roll alts. It takes time to get 5 60s for "casual" players. Maybe the BGs are entertaining enough. Although getting rolled over by twinks and purples doesn't seem that fun.
[right][snapback]100415[/snapback][/right]

Actually 10 months (DM was in March), but who's counting.

I am in no way casual, but I don't like raiding and being forced into it for progression is driving me away from the game. I've started a new character in a permanent small group that will quest and level together and hopefully that will recapture the magic for me. We'll see.

[nobbie]

I am in no way casual, but I don't like raiding and being forced into it for progression is driving me away from the game. I've started a new character in a permanent small group that will quest and level together and hopefully that will recapture the magic for me. We'll see.
[right][snapback]100421[/snapback][/right]

That's what I've been doing the whole time now after about three months of playing just one single main character straight.
I have now one favorite, "stress-free" raid character - an Undead Warlock - who does all current and upcoming highend "non-casual" raid content two times a week together with a nice guild, and the rest are twinks of all classes to enjoy all the different perspectives and flavors the game has to offer - and there's a lot of entertainment far away from the so-called "highend" content. Just don't make the mistake most people make by playing just one character straight :)

[Artega]

They've shown a remarkable ability to construct gameplay that takes months of effort to achieve rewards. I.e. raid instances, PvP reputation/honor, other reputation, "world" events, crafting (maybe), and leveling. I imagine they can come up with some way to make a 1-2 person month long quest.
[right][snapback]100416[/snapback][/right]

Point is, raid instances will be replayed extremely frequently, and thus are a more efficient use of their employees' work-hours. More money for less effort.

[oldmandennis]

Actually 10 months (DM was in March), but who's counting.


[right][snapback]100421[/snapback][/right]

Bliz's answer, and it makes sense to me, is that now there are 4 max lvl dungeons for 15 or less, and 3 1/2 for 40, and 2 for 20.

[Warlock]

Bliz's answer, and it makes sense to me, is that now there are 4 max lvl dungeons for 15 or less, and 3 1/2 for 40, and 2 for 20.
[right][snapback]100487[/snapback][/right]

Important word in my post, progression. BRS, DM, Strath and Scholo all drop gear of much the same quality, none of which requires level 60 to wear. If you want more, you need large groups. The bigger the group, the better the reward; even the trash in MC has eighteen times the epic variety and several hundred times the epic drop rate any 5-man boss.

*shrugs* Blizzard may well be releasing only raid content because it gives the optimum shareholder return. I do know that their current strategy isn't likely to keep me as a customer but if the cost of keeping my interest exceeds $15 a month they are better off without me.

[Rinnhart]

Point is, raid instances will be replayed extremely frequently, and thus are a more efficient use of their employees' work-hours.  More money for less effort.
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I believe you're underestimating the wear "grouping" instances get.

You're limited to one clear of BWL and MC a week- you can run scholo, strath, DM, and BRM until your eyes bleed. I know I did a dozen instances a day, over the summer, fleshing out equipment and farming cash.

Only Blizzard can answer which gets more play.

[MongoJerry]

Well, it looks like Blizzard's current answer is that they're going to rejuvenate some of the older stale 5-man dungeons with some new bosses and new loot -- including soloable content that can give high quality rare items and even an epic item.

Like I said, I do think that Blizzard knows very well that this issue of providing content for the more casual non-raiding player is important. Unfortunately, I think the sweeping changes that are necessary won't be implemented until the expansion comes out. In the meantime, hopefully Blizzard comes up with enough other band-aid ideas to keep people interested in the game until the expansion hits the shelves.

[Icebird]

Naxxramas looks like the only major dungeon between now and the expansion (patch 1.11 or 1.12 maybe?). So I wouldn't hold my breath for a new 5 man dungeon. I wouldn't be surprised to see more casual friendly non-dungeon content however (such as the Field Duty quests unlocked when the AQ gates open) between now and then.

We know that the expansion will have Tempest Keep (multi-winged 5 man dungeon in the Outlands) and Kharazan (which was mentioned as a possible 10 man epic dungeon).

Chris

[Zarathustra]

We know that the expansion will have Tempest Keep (multi-winged 5 man dungeon in the Outlands) and Kharazan (which was mentioned as a possible 10 man epic dungeon).

Chris
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I just hope they make Kharazan ONLY hold 10 people, akin to the way the Dire Maul will only allow 5 inside. The current model of high-level dungeons is "you can quest with 5... or get easy loot with 10." I don't want to see that with a place as cool as Medivh's tower.

[Quark]

I just hope they make Kharazan ONLY hold 10 people, akin to the way the Dire Maul will only allow 5 inside.  The current model of high-level dungeons is "you can quest with 5... or get easy loot with 10."  I don't want to see that with a place as cool as Medivh's tower.
[right][snapback]100619[/snapback][/right]

They've admitted it was a mistake to do that with the original dungeons, but due to it being part of the game for so long they don't want to remove it.

DM, when it came out, was much better balanced for it's intended size than the other places too. So yeah, Blizzard has said that dungeons will be limited to their intended size in the future ;)

[Treesh]

So yeah, Blizzard has said that dungeons will be limited to their intended size in the future ;)
[right][snapback]100625[/snapback][/right]

Hooray! Less zerging! :w00t:

[oldmandennis]

I just hope they make Kharazan ONLY hold 10 people, akin to the way the Dire Maul will only allow 5 inside.  The current model of high-level dungeons is "you can quest with 5... or get easy loot with 10."  I don't want to see that with a place as cool as Medivh's tower.
[right][snapback]100619[/snapback][/right]

Ask and ye shall recieve! Linky