Arathi Basin Strategies and Tactics

[MongoJerry]

This thread is for discussing various Arathi Basin tactics and strategies. Feel free to post your own tactics and strategies that you've discovered.

One thing the Core's Arathi Basin group is discovering when going up against two organized Alliance guilds is how powerful druids are as resource node defenders. They can cat form stealth a healthy distance away, making it look like the node is prime to be "ninjaed," but when you try to take the flag, they shift out and moonfire spam you from a distance, interrupting the flag tap. What makes druids so tough, though, is that their shapeshift ability makes them immune to most crowd control abilities, their cat form can make them move quickly around if needed, and their bear form makes them hard to take down if you want to kill them. A well played druid can prevent an opposing team of two players from tapping the flag almost perpetually and can even slow down a group of three players long enough for reinforcements to arrive.

What these two alliance guilds do is assign one druid each to defend the stables and the mine once they cap them in the initial push. That frees up the other thirteen players to assault the blacksmith and constantly press the mill or farm. If a small party tries to approach the mine or the stables, the druid delays the tapping as long as possible and calls for an appropriate number of reinforcements. At times, the other druid will come to assist if the assaulting party is large enough. On the other hand, if the assaulting party is too big, then the defender druid will delay the inevitable as long as possible while the rest of the raid presses the other resource nodes.

Our group hasn't really found a way to counter this tactic, since we don't have any druids who regularly play with us. We defend our resource nodes as best we can, of course, but other classes just aren't as good at it as druids. Yes, rogues make decent defenders by using sap on a would be banner tapper, but it's easy to dispatch or crowd control a solo rogue defender 2-on-1 quickly enough to tap the banner before reinforcements arrive. Besides, I'd rather keep the rogues we have on offense in the first place.

We've been regularly losing to these two alliance guilds by scores of like 1800-2000. It just seems like the druids are making the difference here. I guess we need to do some recruiting of druids who PvP.

[Watto44]

Curious to see what other's thoughts are on AB, as I'm not what you'd call strategically minded and need all the help I can get. :)

On the druid topic, you could always try sending a warlock or shadow priest. We can't shift to escape fear (although we can now shift out of forms and use our PvP trinket to get out of it). I know when I see a warlock or priest coming at me I die a little bit on the inside. :blush:

As for strategy, I've heard a few calls of "get three and hold them", splitting the raid into three groups of 5. I don't know about everyone else but I haven't found this tactic to be very effective and is certainly very easy to counter. (Just split your raid in two and zerg two nodes.) Right now, mobility seems more important than rock solid defense, although this will probably change as people become accustomed to the map.

I've also heard a lot about how important the blacksmith is, but I'm really in two minds about this. On the map screen it looks like it should be very important, however the geometry of the map is such that access from the BS to the mill or mine is not that easy. I think - strategically - holding either the mill or the mine gives you a better graveyard and easier access to multiple nodes (the stables and the farm are both close, and a bridge to the blacksmith is right around the corner from both).

One thing I have noticed, if you really outmatch your opponent and can hold them at their spawn point it's pretty much an insta-win tactic.

Right now, the AB matches on Terenas are more of a free-for-all melee and it's great fun. :D

[Artega]

One thing I have noticed, if you really outmatch your opponent and can hold them at their spawn point it's pretty much an insta-win tactic.
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My teams have used this to great effect. You generally can't hold them there the entire game, but you can hold them long enough to snag most (if not all) of the nodes and give yourself a headstart.

Like MongoJerry said, Druids are excellent node defenders. Priests also do well (simply DoT everyone attacking to prevent them from capping), though they generally won't be able to win by themselves.

From the Warrior's viewpoint, nothing much has changed. Being a dual-wielding Fury-spec Warrior, I tend to hop around the fringe of the battle, rushing in to Execute low-HP people and constantly harassing (and frequently killing) cloth wearers. I find that attacking Hunters (who are typically on the fringe of the battle lines anyway) is fairly effective, since they don't seem to ever receive heals from the Priests and Paladins (who are usually busy trying to keep each other alive), though all of my experiences are against PUGs, and not guild groups.

Warriors do well in a defensive setting. A good Warrior can last long enough for reinforcements to arrive (I've survived 3v1's long enough for a shaman to arrive), and are quite capable of dealing serious damage. Slap a Rend on anyone trying to sneak their way to the node, and basically be a nuisance. I enjoy abusing Improved Intercept by ping-ponging around (particularly effective when two or more of the attackers are ranged) and freezing people with Intimidating Shout.

My Shaman has yet to make it into AB (apparently Alliance don't like BGs now that the earliest rank is 20-29 instead of 21-30), but I'll update with a Shaman's viewpoint when I do.

[Gorthag]

As for strategy, I've heard a few calls of "get three and hold them", splitting the raid into three groups of 5. I don't know about everyone else but I haven't found this tactic to be very effective and is certainly very easy to counter. (Just split your raid in two and zerg two nodes.) Right now, mobility seems more important than rock solid defense, although this will probably change as people become accustomed to the map.

I've also heard a lot about how important the blacksmith is, but I'm really in two minds about this. On the map screen it looks like it should be very important, however the geometry of the map is such that access from the BS to the mill or mine is not that easy. I think - strategically - holding either the mill or the mine gives you a better graveyard and easier access to multiple nodes (the stables and the farm are both close, and a bridge to the blacksmith is right around the corner from both).

One thing I have noticed, if you really outmatch your opponent and can hold them at their spawn point it's pretty much an insta-win tactic.

Right now, the AB matches on Terenas are more of a free-for-all melee and it's great fun. :D
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I don't much care for the "3 and hold'em" strategy either, it seems to me that much defense is a very re-active rather than pro-active strategy, and giving that much initiative to an opponent in battle is suicide. However I do think you need some sort of defense at a few nodes to prevent quick captures, at least long enough to delay an attack so that reinforcements can arrive.

Of the few games I've played, the most success had us concentrate on holding 3 nodes with 2-3 people "at" each node, then the remaining 7 acting as a roving squad, contesting the remaining two nodes but more importantly breaking up any alliance forces on the roads between nodes. The teams defending each node also didn't stay rooted at the flag, but roved around the area attempting to delay/pick off any lone alliance on the roads as well, withdrawing and calling in the help of the roving squad either for defense when pressured or to go on the offense if the alliance had over-committed. This seems to be a pretty solid strategy, though I'm hardly a pvp expert and my games have all been pickup vs pickup.

As for site importance, I think controlling the mill should be a priority simply because if you're up there and you have a spyglass you can get fantastic recon of the whole valley. I can see for a team with voice-comm, holding that location would be a huge advantage. I would also agree that the smith doesn't seem to be that much easier to get to/from considering it's central location. For site conquest I think the best strategy is to focus on controlling the mill/farm/mine or mill/farm/stables while contesting the other two where possible.

And I'd definitely like to second the fun comment! :)

[undertow]

Curious to see what other's thoughts are on AB, as I'm not what you'd call strategically minded and need all the help I can get. :)

On the druid topic, you could always try sending a warlock or shadow priest. We can't shift to escape fear (although we can now shift out of forms and use our PvP trinket to get out of it). I know when I see a warlock or priest coming at me I die a little bit on the inside.  :blush:

As for strategy, I've heard a few calls of "get three and hold them", splitting the raid into three groups of 5. I don't know about everyone else but I haven't found this tactic to be very effective and is certainly very easy to counter. (Just split your raid in two and zerg two nodes.) Right now, mobility seems more important than rock solid defense, although this will probably change as people become accustomed to the map.

I've also heard a lot about how important the blacksmith is, but I'm really in two minds about this. On the map screen it looks like it should be very important, however the geometry of the map is such that access from the BS to the mill or mine is not that easy. I think - strategically - holding either the mill or the mine gives you a better graveyard and easier access to multiple nodes (the stables and the farm are both close, and a bridge to the blacksmith is right around the corner from both).

One thing I have noticed, if you really outmatch your opponent and can hold them at their spawn point it's pretty much an insta-win tactic.

Right now, the AB matches on Terenas are more of a free-for-all melee and it's great fun. :D
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I regularly do AB with my guild, not always as a full 15 man raid, but usually 5-10 guild members per BG. Our strategy so far is to send a 5 man group to the mill, BS and mine, with one person lagging behind to cap the farm real quick.

Once the initial push is over, we leave 1 or 2 at each node and the rest respond to requests for aid. I feel that the BS is very important, Spawning from there gives you a good central location to strike at any node you need to.

I agree that the mill is a very important node, primarily for the scouting position it gives you. When you're holding the mine, you can't see what's happening at any of the other nodes, while from the mill you can see everything but the mine. I usually play defense on the Mill with my shaman, and I call out when I see a force leaving the stables to head to my position, I can usually hold or delay long enough for the cavalry to arrive.

overall, I really enjoy AB, moreso than the other two battlegrounds (good thing too, since everyone's doing AB. AV and WSG have died on my server.)

[lemekim]

This thread is for discussing various Arathi Basin tactics and strategies.  Feel free to post your own tactics and strategies that you've discovered.

One thing the Core's Arathi Basin group is discovering when going up against two organized Alliance guilds is how powerful druids are as resource node defenders.  They can cat form stealth a healthy distance away, making it look like the node is prime to be "ninjaed," but when you try to take the flag, they shift out and moonfire spam you from a distance, interrupting the flag tap.  What makes druids so tough, though, is that their shapeshift ability makes them immune to most crowd control abilities, their cat form can make them move quickly around if needed, and their bear form makes them hard to take down if you want to kill them.  A well played druid can prevent an opposing team of two players from tapping the flag almost perpetually and can even slow down a group of three players long enough for reinforcements to arrive. 

What these two alliance guilds do is assign one druid each to defend the stables and the mine once they cap them in the initial push.  That frees up the other thirteen players to assault the blacksmith and constantly press the mill or farm.  If a small party tries to approach the mine or the stables, the druid delays the tapping as long as possible and calls for an appropriate number of reinforcements.  At times, the other druid will come to assist if the assaulting party is large enough.  On the other hand, if the assaulting party is too big, then the defender druid will delay the inevitable as long as possible while the rest of the raid presses the other resource nodes.

Our group hasn't really found a way to counter this tactic, since we don't have any druids who regularly play with us.  We defend our resource nodes as best we can, of course, but other classes just aren't as good at it as druids.  Yes, rogues make decent defenders by using sap on a would be banner tapper, but it's easy to dispatch or crowd control a solo rogue defender 2-on-1 quickly enough to tap the banner before reinforcements arrive.  Besides, I'd rather keep the rogues we have on offense in the first place.

We've been regularly losing to these two alliance guilds by scores of like 1800-2000.  It just seems like the druids are making the difference here.  I guess we need to do some recruiting of druids who PvP.
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An Engineer can make quick work of the druid. Rocket helm or Mind Control cap will allow you plenty of time to cap the flag.

Warlock + Shadow Priest combo will make short work of the druid as well. Either through DPS (CoS, Vulnerability, Shadowbolt debuff), or through CC (Mind Control, Charm, Fears, Counterspell). The trick of course is to approach without being seen, and it's easier for horde then alliance, since the vsibility from the Mine is very low.

A rogue can keep the druid occupied as well. Druids can break stun, but they can't break blind or gouge. Have two people come to flag - one starts capping while rogue stealths, druids pops up, gets blinded (10 sec), gouge (5.5 sec) - thats 14-15 secs you can use to cap the flag. A priest would be ideal support for this, since they can dispel moonfire, and clear abolish poison from the druid.

Alternatively, you can send a druid with a warrior or a rogue. If the druid stays in human form, he will get destroyed, if he shifts... He gets slept.

I don't know why you are having such a problem. I've seen solo druids try to guard before, and if we send 3 people to attack them, they die very fast, as long as you balance your group between magic and melee DPS . I understand if those druids did it once or twice to you - it's hard to prepare for such tactic without knowing it's coming. I can see maybe if sometimes they would put shadowmelded people to confuse you. But If you keep keep sending like 3 people and can't take the flag from a single druid over and over again... I guess then you deserve to lose, because they are better then you.

[Concillian]

What these two alliance guilds do is assign one druid each to defend the stables and the mine once they cap them in the initial push.  That frees up the other thirteen players to assault the blacksmith and constantly press the mill or farm.  If a small party tries to approach the mine or the stables, the druid delays the tapping as long as possible and calls for an appropriate number of reinforcements.  At times, the other druid will come to assist if the assaulting party is large enough.  On the other hand, if the assaulting party is too big, then the defender druid will delay the inevitable as long as possible while the rest of the raid presses the other resource nodes.

Our group hasn't really found a way to counter this tactic, since we don't have any druids who regularly play with us.

I like the rogue option as lemekim mentioned. Send 2 stealthed.

When the first rogue starts tapping the flag, and the drood pops out of stealth, the second can gouge him and sprint for the flag (since he's not DoTed), then the first sprints to the druid and blinds, then vanish and cheapshot between DoT ticks after counting to 9 seconds. The druid will have to shift twice, wasting time, and a gouge will keep him immobile longer, followed by a kidney shot for 2 more shifts. Should be enough time to take 2 on 1, especially if the first has improved gouge.

If you have the time, the second rogue that assaults the druid from stealth while the first is drawing his attention to the flage can cheap shot first to get the extra combo points so when the flag is turned, you have an easier time of downing the druid, but that will give a couple of valuable seconds of headstart time to the defenders (druid shapeshifting twice), who will be on their way as soon as the druid sees he's in trouble.

Should give you the node within 15 - 20 seconds of initial sighting, which should be quick enough to avoid issues with the other druid coming to assist.

[Artega]

Alternately you can just sap the druid after he pops out.

[Concillian]

Alternately you can just sap the druid after he pops out.
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You won't be close enough, unless you know exactly where he is, in which case you only need one rogue.

The instant he pops out he is going to DOT the rogue capping the flag and put himself in combat... can't sap someone in combat.

Sap would be ideal, but I don't think it would be effective in this situation unless you got really lucky. You have 1.x seconds to get to him when he pops stealth. 1 to shift to caster and then an instant cast spell will be cast on the rogue at the flag. Probably not enough time to get to him and sap him.

[Trien]

I run druid defense at nodes quite often, and I have nature's reach (40-yard nuke range) and swiftshifting. Add the 4-piece PvP set bonus, and travel form moves at 161% speed. Typically, I try to stay at max range from the flag, run around in travel form to stay away from people, and pop out to moonfire (rank 1) anyone who tries to grab the flag. Trick is to watch who's around you to judge how much range you'll need to keep. Sometimes you can keep them at bay for a long time... won't stop them, but buy time for reinforcements to arrive.

Fears and ranged stuns give me trouble... rogues I can pretty much just kite, warriors if I stay out of charge/intercept range. Mages just focusfire me to death :)

One of my worst nightmares is a 15-mage team... poly everything, focusfire everything else that you can't poly...

[Brista]

I like the rogue option as lemekim mentioned.  Send 2 stealthed. 

When the first rogue starts tapping the flag, and the drood pops out of stealth, the second can gouge him and sprint for the flag (since he's not DoTed), then the first sprints to the druid and blinds, then vanish and cheapshot between DoT ticks after counting to 9 seconds. 

This seems to assume that the druid is going to attack. What I think MongoJerry is talking about is a druid who simply wants to tag someone with a dot then get back into stealth

Let's suppose you're the second rogue, waiting to Gouge the druid. Your first warning is the big white tail of the moonfire hitting, followed by a druid slipping into Cat and using Dash to gain distance so he can re-stealth. Even if you immediately Sprint you still won't catch him and that leaves Rogue 1 dotted and Rogue 2 chasing. If you stop chasing and come back to take the flag the druid can come on back and dot you in turn.

If he uses targetting macros (eg /tar concillian) or types the command he can even dot you while running away from you, Moonfire reaches 40 yards behind him as he runs

As for fear that has a much shorter range and the druid never needs to come within range of a priest or warlock to perform this type of defence

OK, he'll slip up eventually and you'll get him between you but I can certainly see how a sole druid could make life hard for a team of two or three

I'd quite recommend recruiting Hunters if you can't find Druids. Hunter's Mark, Flare, Track Hidden, Traps, Wyvern Sting and Concussive Shot are all good counters to this defence

Also a Hunter can perform the job in a similar way to the Druid. Find some nice out of the way hideaway not to close to the node, possess the pet, stealth the pet, then go down and watch the node from stealth. All sorts of methods are then possible to interrupt people including simply whacking them with the cat which then runs to a false hiding place, so they follow the cat back thinking that's where you'll be and you're not there, it's merely a Stay point you've set up for the cat. If they all come looking for you, Feign Death is really effective because while most players are wise to Hunters feigning during a fight, no one checks random dead bodies lying around the place. Shadowmelding Hunters of course would be great for this role

Alternatively one character to chase the druid off (eg a Warrior) and one with Dispel to take the first Moonfire, dispel the dot and capture the node while the druid is busy

[lemekim]

This seems to assume that the druid is going to attack. What I think MongoJerry is talking about is a druid who simply wants to tag someone with a dot then get back into stealth

Let's suppose you're the second rogue, waiting to Gouge the druid. Your first warning is the big white tail of the moonfire hitting, followed by a druid slipping into Cat and using Dash to gain distance so he can re-stealth. Even if you immediately Sprint you still won't catch him and that leaves Rogue 1 dotted and Rogue 2 chasing. If you stop chasing and come back to take the flag the druid can come on back and dot you in turn.

If he uses targetting macros (eg /tar concillian) or types the command he can even dot you while running away from you, Moonfire reaches 40 yards behind him as he runs

As for fear that has a much shorter range and the druid never needs to come within range of a priest or warlock to perform this type of defence

OK, he'll slip up eventually and you'll get him between you but I can certainly see how a sole druid could make life hard for a team of two or three

I'd quite recommend recruiting Hunters if you can't find Druids. Hunter's Mark, Flare, Track Hidden, Traps, Wyvern Sting and Concussive Shot are all good counters to this defence

Also a Hunter can perform the job in a similar way to the Druid. Find some nice out of the way hideaway not to close to the node, possess the pet, stealth the pet, then go down and watch the node from stealth. All sorts of methods are then possible to interrupt people including simply whacking them with the cat which then runs to a false hiding place, so they follow the cat back thinking that's where you'll be and you're not there, it's merely a Stay point you've set up for the cat. If they all come looking for you, Feign Death is really effective because while most players are wise to Hunters feigning during a fight, no one checks random dead bodies lying around the place. Shadowmelding Hunters of course would be great for this role

Alternatively one character to chase the druid off (eg a Warrior) and one with Dispel to take the first Moonfire, dispel the dot and capture the node while the druid is busy
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I said nothing about 2 rogues. I said a rogue + ... a class that can preferrably dispel. So a priest is probably better actually. Get the priest on the flag, rogue waits nearby. Druid pops out, moonfires, turns to cat and starts running away.

Now see, this is where you can either do it the easy way - with engineering, or the hard way - through skill.

With engineering, simply use rocket helm, it's 30 yards, I'm sure the rogue will be SOMEWHERE near druid.

Second way is purely through rogue skills. Rogue pops sprint and chases the druid, all the while spamming blind key. If the druid runs away, the priest will have time to cap the flag. If the druid runs back to try and stop the priest, the rogue will blind him. Yes, you have to watch for abolish poison, but that lasts 8 seconds, and would take an extra global cooldown. Don't bother with sap here, since druid will be either in combat or stealthed. If at any moment druid pops into human form to moonfire, he a) goes into combat, B) loses sprint. But you need a good rogue to do this. And I said, this is just one of the options.

[Icebird]

I really like Arathi Basin. I've paired up with one of the guild druids a few times to defend a node and it works pretty well - between Seduce, Fear, roots etc etc, they usually have to send 3 or more people to take the node.

[MongoJerry]

This seems to assume that the druid is going to attack. What I think MongoJerry is talking about is a druid who simply wants to tag someone with a dot then get back into stealth

DoT's don't prevent people from tagging flags. It has to be a direct damage spell. However, all it takes for a druid to stop someone from tagging the flag is an instant cast moonfire. The thing about druids is that they can start of stealthed (meaning that they could be almost in any direction relative to the flag and can't be sapped from the start), can wait for someone to start to tag a flag (meanwhile shouting on teamspeak or in raid chat for help), wait five seconds, then shift out and moonfire the person. Then, they can cat and sprint if they want to and go around the perimeter. If people chase the druid, they aren't tagging the flag. If people try to tag the flag, the druid can moonfire them again. If they split up, then druids take a long time to catch up to and take down and meanwhile all the druid has to do is get off a moonfire once every ten seconds. A good druid can delay things a very long time while reinforcements arrive.

And yes, one could use a goblin rocket helm in a team of two to counter the druid. But that's the key. It takes using extraordinary measures to defeat a solo druid with a team of two. The fact that you have to resort to something like that just shows how good druids are in this role. Add a second player of almost any class defending the node with the druid, and you can hold that node for a very long time.

[Bolty]

Arathi Basin n00b Experiences
Strategy, too!

I am posting this here in this thread rather than create a new one, thus resurrecting it! However, I have not read a single post in this thread yet and will go back up to read, because I'm interested to see how my thoughts as a n00b battlegrounder compare to the veterans.

I want to make Sergeant with Cleoboltra. The 10% discount to all things sold by faction NPCs is just dandy - most everyone points out how it will save 100 gold on an epic mount as the largest saving, and that's true. However, 10% off on anything else I ever buy is a nice perk as well. Now that PvP ranks are never "demoted" off your character, once you make Sergeant you'll have that discount for life.

Not that I'll stop PvPing after I hit Sergeant; I just won't care about ranks and such. I have seen the reports of the grind required to get past rank 7 and how it basically requires you to consume your whole life to it - no thanks. I'd rather raid with the Lurkers.

Do I have a point? Oh, yes. This weekend was the Arathi Basin holiday weekend, so I played about 7-8 matches to build up some honor. I'm aiming for Sergeant after two weeks and I hear that's not difficult to get due to Blizzard's leniency in getting the early ranks. Hopefully I'll be Corporal on Tuesday.

This was my first foray into the Battlegrounds, and it was everything I wanted - fair, controlled PvP action hot and heavy. And of course my talent build was horrific for PvP, but I was there to have fun and did so, actually HEALING my teammates (gasp) and playing psychic scream disruptor/rogue SW:P annoyer. I think I actually got 2 or 3 killing blows or so, which surprised me! My damage output is terrible.

In short, I am a n00b that any serious, dedicated battlegrounds PvP'er wouldn't want on their team. I can't melt faces, I can't silence, I can't stun, I'm basically just a heal battery that any smart enemy would plaster first in any engagement (and the Horde obliged with gusto, much of the time). Since I was only going to abuse the system and get Sergeant rank, then, tough noogies!

If you're not familiar with the Battlegrounds or the Arathi Basin, please read here for some background info, or else what I wrote below won't make much sense to you:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battleg...nfo-arathi.html

I'll regale you with some (probably unwanted) anecdotes before moving on to the strategies:

1) My first match ever wound up being a hell of an indoctrination to the Arathi Basin. I got in a match with a dedicated PvP team that apparently had a few spots they had to fill with pubbie n00bs like me. The leader was Reaperz, a Marshal on Stormrage, who Knew His Shizzle, took charge, and we plastered the Horde BAD (I think the final score was 2000 to 150 or so). "Oh hey, this is easy," I thought, and immediately entered the queue again.

During this fight (and every fight thereafter) my main goal was to hold one of the five strongpoints (gold mine, farm, blacksmith, stables, lumber mill). I was much better suited to playing defense rather than offense due to my talent spec and character design, and I knew it. I also lacked an epic mount, so I couldn't get around as quickly as the roamers or attackers - so I'd be better used on defense. Plus, being on Reaperz' team showed me right away how to dominate the map by holding the strongpoints, and I got to see how effective playing good defense is as the Horde players would keep throwing themselves at our controlled defense to no avail.

All other matches I played were in pick-up raids. Some were successful, some weren't, and it doesn't take long to figure out why. As with PvE pick-up groups, you usually know in the first minute or two if you're in for a smooth run or a steaming turd.

2) Nothing gets the enemy more excited than seeing an exposed Priest standing around. Oh noes! But what happens when that lone Priest standing at the gold mine flag is actually guarded by a shadowmelded Night Elf Druid and Hunter? Hilarity ensues.

This worked literally 3 or 4 times in just one match. Some Horde would be traveling along the ridge above the gold mine, look down and just see my lonesome self guarding the flag, and come ripping down to own me. I shield, wait for the charge/stun/gouge/sheep/whatever, and watch as my two guardians unstealth and plaster the poor attackers. By the time they recover from the surprise assault, it's over. I think I had a Basiner in on that one with me, but I don't recall the name.

3) One pick-up raid was obvious from the start it was going nowhere. Everyone stood around asking "what's the plan?" Nobody said one, so everyone just kinda roamed around killing and being killed. We got slaughtered that game, of course, against the organized Horde group that at one point came SO close to actually owning ALL 5 strongpoints. Needless to say, the honor gain that run wasn't so hot.

4) I won a match 2000 to 1980. That was friggin AWESOME. Great groups on both sides in a match that went back and forth like crazy. Definitely the best experience of the weekend for me. If the match went to 2050 points the Horde probably would have won, since at that moment they controlled more strongpoints.

5) One fight amused me in particular. A frenzied battle over the blacksmith flag was ensuing, and for once I wasn't the primary target of the invaders (cause they were dumb, of course). Since they left me alone, I did my usual psychic scream thing to disrupt the attack, and then started actually healing. I think the attackers were so surprised they didn't know what to do (expecting me instead to mind flay/silence/what have you). By the time they recovered from the shock of seeing an Alliance priest actually healing her comrades, it was too late and their attack was smashed. The even better part was the reaction of my teammates who /hugged me for the heals. They aren't used to it either.

6) MongoJerry hates Paladins. I got a firsthand look at why during a match where I was once again guarding the gold mine - just me and a Paladin. Five Hordies came down the path and I knew death was imminent - for me, at least. The Hunter and two Rogues made short work of me and I waited for the graveyard to spawn me, figuring the Paladin would be toast shortly thereafter. Nope. That one bloody Paladin held the strongpoint and prevented FIVE Horde from getting it during the 15 seconds I waited for respawn. I respawned, ran back, and just as the Paladin was about to bite it I Shielded him, flash healed twice, cast renew, and died again in a hail of gunfire and stabbity death. Waiting again for respawn, I came back to see that as the Paladin was dying, 6 Alliance members came riding in to obliterate the invaders. One Priest and one Paladin held off five Horde from taking the flag for about 40 seconds.



Enough with the anecdotes, time for some STRATEGY!

If you haven't figured out from my anecdotes from now, the proper strategy for the Arathi Basin isn't particularly difficult. It's a 15-player zone, and there are 5 strongpoints to control. If you control 3 and your enemy controls only 2, you win. From my limited n00b experiences, I see that there are three main roles for any party member to play in the Arathi Basin:

1) Defender. Holds a strongpoint against attacks. If attacking force is too large to handle (usually the case), the defender announces the attack to the raid and then attempts to survive/disrupt the attack long enough to prevent the enemy from assaulting and capturing the point before reinforcments arrive. The goal isn't to kill an attacker so much as it is to keep them busy until help comes - they simply have to hurt anyone touching the flag to disrupt the assault. If the attacking force isn't large enough to threaten the position, kill the attackers and /taunt their fetid corpses.

2) Roamer. The Roamers join the Defenders at first in order to take the initial positions. They then go to where they are needed to hold the positions. As the Defenders call out for help, the Roamers get in gear and charge down to defend the post. Defenders must keep Roamers informed of what's going on until they arrive - after all, if the attack is a feint, the Roamers don't want to cross over the whole map to find the REAL attack is on the other side.

3) Disruptor. The Disruptors are a pack of a few players who will do their best to annoy and disrupt enemy organization. This can be done by swift attacks on enemy strongpoints to distract the enemy from getting a solid attack going, sniping any solo enemies running around, and irritating the foe.

The more experienced PvP'ers in your group should be Roamers and Disruptors. n00bs or This also goes for gear, and especially those with epic mounts should be Roamers.

Classes that would suit certain roles well (theoretically, any class could fit in for any role though):

Paladin: Defender. I mean, duh. See anecdote #6 above. Paladins are just BORN to stop invaders from taking a strongpoint and irritating the hell out of them.

Priest: Defender if healing-spec'ed, but would make a great Roamer if talented for PvP well. There were some fights where I'd just stand still and heal myself constantly while the enemy would try desperately to kill me - while my Alliance buddies were then wailing on the poor bastard. For a healing spec'ed Priest, that can be your best move (sans SW:P on rogues to prevent them from vanishing) - do what you're good at, not hit the enemy for a pitiful Mind Blast!

Rogue: Disruptor and Roamer. Can be wicked as a Defender to lure attackers into a trap, but since we're Alliance we can have any Night Elf shadowmeld to do the same thing.

Warrior: Roamer. You want a Warrior leading every charge when a strongpoint is being attacked. Get in there and bash some heads, and if you're lucky the Warrior will be focused on by the attackers instead of squishier teammates in back.


n00b evaluation on general strategy: as I've mentioned earlier, if you hold three locations while the enemy holds 2, you win. So the focus seems clear from the start. With a raid of 15 people, each group will hit one point at the beginning and secure it. Once secure, the defenders (2 per group, maybe 3) will hold the position and the roamers move to where they are needed - either one of the three initial points is being contested too much or an attack is imminent on a defended point. The disruptors head out to start attacks on lightly defended enemy points or just to annoy the enemy (charging headlong into an organized enemy attack heading to its destination is a great way to screw it up).

Hold the three points. You may lose one from time to time as it's assaulted, but if the enemy never takes control of the point (they have to own it for a full minute IIRC) then you're always in the lead. The key is discipline, which almost all pick-up raids completely lack in PvP. Everyone must know their role and stick to it - the temptation to abandon your defended post to help out against an attack elsewhere is high, but doing that plays right into the enemy's hands. They'll just keep shifting their assaults around, and your team is forced to react constantly, always staying behind. If you hold your points and keep annoying them, then they're forced to react, get frustrated, etc.



I would love to see a Lurker team assembled to do some Battlegrounds. Believe me that with a group of 15 PvP newbs that are organized vs. a group of varied-experience PvPers playing randomly in a pick-up raid, we'd slaughter them every time. Yes, if 15 of us still new to PvP run up against a highly experienced Horde PvP group, we'll get owned, but we can still have fun anyway in the process (and learn a few things).

Anyhow, those who have quite a lot of PvP experience here (e.g. Quark, Mongo, Artega, etc) can probably add a lot more to this discussion. This is just what I picked up after a few matches, and it's things all said before: that in Battlegrounds, teamwork is the key, and n00bs playing as a team can still dominate experts not playing well together.

As usual, hope you enjoyed the read. I'll see you next weekend in whatever BG has a holiday - Sergeant discount for the win!

-Bolty

[Tuftears]

Your description of the 2000-1980 battle sounds an awful lot like the one I had Saturday night - were you in it too? Intense battle, Horde having more strongpoints at the end... Yow.

So far as I know, the only thing you won't lose as your PvP rank decays is the ability to wear any PvP items that you had bought at a higher rank - you can lose the PvP discount. Thus, I try to do enough PvP each week to stay in rank.

[MongoJerry]

6) MongoJerry hates Paladins.  I got a firsthand look at why during a match where I was once again guarding the gold mine - just me and a Paladin.  Five Hordies came down the path and I knew death was imminent - for me, at least.  The Hunter and two Rogues made short work of me and I waited for the graveyard to spawn me, figuring the Paladin would be toast shortly thereafter.  Nope.  That one bloody Paladin held the strongpoint and prevented FIVE Horde from getting it during the 15 seconds I waited for respawn.  I respawned, ran back, and just as the Paladin was about to bite it I Shielded him, flash healed twice, cast renew, and died again in a hail of gunfire and stabbity death.  Waiting again for respawn, I came back to see that as the Paladin was dying, 6 Alliance members came riding in to obliterate the invaders.  One Priest and one Paladin held off five Horde from taking the flag for about 40 seconds.

Yep. Now, imagine two paladins together. Yeesh.

Paladin: Defender.  I mean, duh.  See anecdote #6 above.  Paladins are just BORN to stop invaders from taking a strongpoint and irritating the hell out of them.

Yes, they definitely work well as defenders. They also make great partners with warriors, too, though, so it's good to have a couple of paladins with the roaming teams. I'd suggest that if you do set aside a paladin as a defender that it be at a forward position that gets more action than back at the stables, because paladins are too valuable to leave back there.

Priest: Defender if healing-spec'ed, but would make a great Roamer if talented for PvP well.  There were some fights where I'd just stand still and heal myself constantly while the enemy would try desperately to kill me - while my Alliance buddies were then wailing on the poor bastard.  For a healing spec'ed Priest, that can be your best move (sans SW:P on rogues to prevent them from vanishing) - do what you're good at, not hit the enemy for a pitiful Mind Blast!

I once thought this way as well, but I've come to the realization that this is a terrible idea. It's too easy for a solo rogue to sap a priest and take a flag untouched. Or, if there's two people there, then sap the priest, blind the second person and then take the flag. Meanwhile, if there's no rogue in the attacking party, the priest has one attack to disrupt the attacking party, Psychic Scream. Once it's used -- and the charging warriors will likely be immune to it anyway -- the priest dies too quickly to do very much.

It's far better for a priest to be a part of the roamer group healing the warriors. What's more, as a roamer, enemies will likely already be engaged in battle when you come on the scene. This allows you to be far more devastating, since the enemies aren't focus firing on you. This lets you ride up into the middle of enemies, dismount, and psychic scream to really mess people up. You can also heal and dispell. You can also begin to mind control people off the ledge at the mill or into the water at the blacksmith. As a defender, you wouldn't be able to do any of this, because all of the attackers would focus and kill you from the start. But as a roamer, you have a much better chance of doing all of it.

The best defenders in the game are druids, hunters, paladins, warlocks, and rogues. They're the ones most likely to be unaffected by sap and who can keep multiple people busy for a long time until help arrives. (Hunters and warlocks can be sapped, but they can just target their pets at someone tapping the flag. Also, hunters can trap the flag. Plus, if the hunter is a stink'n night elf with a stealthed pet, that makes things (as usual for alliance) easy).

P.S. Get your epic mount quickly!

[oldmandennis]

Here's a stratagy the horde use on my server: since the alliance substantially outnumber us, /afk if you recognaise anyone with skills on the other team.

From an honor standpoint, it's much more effecient. If you can get a game 20 sec after entering the queue, it's much faster to go for games you know you can win in 10-15 min rather then try to contest ones that will take 1/2 an hour or maybe even lose.

I think its unfortunate that most of the good horde teams on my server roll like that. I'd much rather have a memorable close defeat then 5 marks for crushing PUGs.

[MongoJerry]

Here's a stratagy the horde use on my server:  since the alliance substantially outnumber us, /afk if you recognaise anyone with skills on the other team.

Yep, unfortunately that often happens on our server. The Core has had a lot of arguments about it. We've finally fielded a "no afk" team that adamently refuses to afk against anyone, and the games have been much more fun for me since then. However, when we don't have our "A team" on, there's a lot of grumbling to afk against known good alliance teams, because some people are trying to rank up to get items. The current system where you are basically fighting against your own faction in the race for cp's and where you don't have any incentive to stay in difficult games needs to be radically changed. Unfortunately, I haven't thought up a good system myself. I do understand that 1.19 will bring a penalty to those who /afk, though. Supposedly, you won't be able to rejoin the queue for some amount of time after you /afk. I don't know the details, but that does sound like a start at least.

But anyway, this thread is about how to actually win Arathi Basin games and not how to win by losing the cp race.

[LochnarITB]

I would love to see a Lurker team assembled to do some Battlegrounds.  Believe me that with a group of 15 PvP newbs that are organized vs. a group of varied-experience PvPers playing randomly in a pick-up raid, we'd slaughter them every time.  Yes, if 15 of us still new to PvP run up against a highly experienced Horde PvP group, we'll get owned, but we can still have fun anyway in the process (and learn a few things).
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I've said it before, but if this does happen, Lochnar tells me he would love to give it a try. His handler is a complete and utter n00B, but would do his best to follow the lead of more experienced players. This is the only way I can see actually enjoying PvP. I said the same about WsG and AV, but I found WsG lacking and have never gotten into an AV, so it may just take one or two tries to realize I will never like PvP, in any form. I will never know until I try, and I would like to try with friends rather than get an initial bad taste from pubbies.

I do understand that 1.19 will bring a penalty to those who /afk, though.
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Wow, they're already talking about changes for 1.19? I've only seen talk about 1.9. Some deep inside sources MJ? :P :lol: