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Maphack question...
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07-12-2005, 05:59 PM
If you are planning to do item runs, you are making a game that is passworded, that noone else is supposed to be able to join, and are just looking for "driving instructions" would use of mh still be considered a cheat? There would be no unfair advantage over other players, it'd simply make things a bit quicker for your own runs.
Please note, I do NOT have map hack, am merely inquiring.
07-12-2005, 06:11 PM
> would use of mh still be considered a cheat? There would be no unfair advantage over other players,
I'd say it's not a cheat at all. As long as you treat that character as if it were a solo, single player character, and have no interaction with any other characters. Otherwise, you might as well not call it a cheat when someone takes steroids during the training period, but not at the race. 
07-12-2005, 06:22 PM
SetBuilder,Jul 12 2005, 01:59 PM Wrote:If you are planning to do item runs, you are making a game that is passworded, that noone else is supposed to be able to join, and are just looking for "driving instructions" would use of mh still be considered a cheat? There would be no unfair advantage over other players, it'd simply make things a bit quicker for your own runs. Lets say that you are true to your word that you won't ever use maphack in games with other players. Lets also by extension assume that you won't ever trade any of the items, not even so much as a chipped gem, with anyone else. I would still say that your use of maphack is a an advantage over more ethical players as your runs to get item X are more time efficient than their runs.
07-12-2005, 06:52 PM
Tal,Jul 12 2005, 11:22 AM Wrote:Lets say that you are true to your word that you won't ever use maphack in games with other players. Lets also by extension assume that you won't ever trade any of the items, not even so much as a chipped gem, with anyone else. I would still say that your use of maphack is a an advantage over more ethical players as your runs to get item X are more time efficient than their runs. Agreed. Using MH on closed b.net is cheating, period.
07-12-2005, 07:04 PM
Tal,Jul 12 2005, 10:22 AM Wrote:Lets say that you are true to your word that you won't ever use maphack in games with other players. Lets also by extension assume that you won't ever trade any of the items, not even so much as a chipped gem, with anyone else. I would still say that your use of maphack is a an advantage over more ethical players as your runs to get item X are more time efficient than their runs. Fair enough. Question answered in a very unpainful manner even. Honestly, wasn't planning to use MH, don't particularly see any point, as I'm going to kill everything anyway if it's hell diff, and if it's not hell diff, only 1/10 runs has a good drop anyway.
08-12-2005, 01:38 PM
SetBuilder,Jul 12 2005, 07:04 PM Wrote:Fair enough. Question answered in a very unpainful manner even. all map hackers now get both original d2 cd keys and lod cd keys banned from the realm and as well, their accounts get fully closed, wich they used map hack on, meaning if u have friends list, bye, if u use on another game on bnet, bye account, and if you wanna get it back, u got better chances at winning the lottery with 1 ticket and last weks numbers. 
08-12-2005, 03:44 PM
S P A C E,Aug 12 2005, 01:38 PM Wrote:all map hackers now get both original d2 cd keys and lod cd keys banned from the realm and as well, their accounts get fully closed, wich they used map hack onYeah, i heard about it too... As a matter of fact i thought once to use maphack, but lucky i didn't. At the time i have only one acco on use and it would be a pity to lose it... :P
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that
counts." - Winston Churchill 
08-12-2005, 04:01 PM
Hammerskjold,Jul 12 2005, 01:11 PM Wrote:Otherwise, you might as well not call it a cheat when someone takes steroids during the training period, but not at the race. Yet they are still entirely illegal. Kind of like maphack ;). Cheers, Munk 
08-12-2005, 05:49 PM
It should be noted that I have not player D2 since around the release of 1.10.
At that time, when maphack was prevelant and not as yet a bannable offense, I extensively used it. Why: It was more fun. I have limited time to play in game, to increase the risk / reward I played exclusively Hardcore. The use of maphack allowed me to maximize the rate at which I acquired items while simultaneously alerting me in advance to the MSLE (and their kin) bosses that could ruin days, weeks, months of play time in an instant. Do I think that it is cheating, borderline. Is it cheating in World of Warcraft to use a mod that self casts? The game has the capacity to self cast through scripting and it is an enormous advantage for a player that uses it over those that don't (especially healer classes). If/When Blizzard feels that this is an excessive advantage, they have the power to alter the game to remove this capacity. Before maphack was specifically stated to be a bannable offense, the use of it violated neither the EULA nor the stated Blizzard rules for B.Net. As such it was an advantage, but not a cheat. Today it is specifically banned and as such is a cheat. The next question is 'what impact does cheating have?' This is a game, the intent of any game is to be fun for the user. D2 (unlike WoW) is *not* a game with a real economy. The prevelance of duped items, hacked gambling and the lack of true consumption prevented items from having any true value. As such, as long as one's cheat does not impact other players 'fun' I cannot adequately make the argument that cheating is bad. If it's fun for a player to have all the items, and they use that advantage to kill Baal a lot, good for them, it wouldn't be fun for me, but it isn't my place to impose my ethics on others. If they use a cheat to sell items on ebay, I still say 'good for them' as using real money to purchase items on ebay violates the EULA and Blizzard policies and therefore is an arrangement between two cheaters (the seller and the purchaser). If they instead use a cheat to acquire items for trade in game, I still say 'good for them' as the lowered price of the items benefits me. I can adequately determine the true market value of an item and make a choice, and I can always choose not to trade with those I don't know. Where I have a problem is where a cheater uses the advantage to PK, disrupt online service or otherwise interfere in an *active* way on the fun of others. This isn't the real world, this is a virtual world, the rules and ethics contained within must be viewed in that light. Hacked items are not on an equal footing with counterfeit currency. Thoughts and comments are welcome and encouraged. -kersh
08-12-2005, 06:11 PM
kershner,Aug 12 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:I have limited time to play in game, to increase the risk / reward I played exclusively Hardcore. The use of maphack allowed me to maximize the rate at which I acquired items while simultaneously alerting me in advance to the MSLE (and their kin) bosses that could ruin days, weeks, months of play time in an instant.[right][snapback]85844[/snapback][/right] This is a contradiction. You want to increase the risk and reward by playing Hardcore but use maphack to avoid those things that are the riskiest in the game. Its much the same as the guy who plays HC single player and backs up this character to restore it should he get eaten. Half the fun of hardcore is the sense of accomplishment from coming out on the far side of a encounter with the deadlier monsters alive. kershner,Aug 12 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:Do I think that it is cheating, borderline. Is it cheating in World of Warcraft to use a mod that self casts? The game has the capacity to self cast through scripting and it is an enormous advantage for a player that uses it over those that don't (especially healer classes). If/When Blizzard feels that this is an excessive advantage, they have the power to alter the game to remove this capacity.[right][snapback]85844[/snapback][/right] I would argue that by making the individual levels and the monsters within random that Blizzard is dictating where the advantages should lie. kershner,Aug 12 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:The next question is 'what impact does cheating have?' This is a game, the intent of any game is to be fun for the user. D2 (unlike WoW) is *not* a game with a real economy. The prevelance of duped items, hacked gambling and the lack of true consumption prevented items from having any true value. As such, as long as one's cheat does not impact other players 'fun' I cannot adequately make the argument that cheating is bad.[right][snapback]85844[/snapback][/right] There is more to fun than the economy and items. A sense of pride and accomplishment in beating the game on the developer's terms NOT by using a third party program to show me the fastest way down and what mobs are coming. Whats more if we were in a party together and you guide me down or around the tougher mobs than by necessity you have impacted my play experience negatively. kershner,Aug 12 2005, 01:49 PM Wrote:If it's fun for a player to have all the items, and they use that advantage to kill Baal a lot, good for them, it wouldn't be fun for me, but it isn't my place to impose my ethics on others. If they use a cheat to sell items on ebay, I still say 'good for them' as using real money to purchase items on ebay violates the EULA and Blizzard policies and therefore is an arrangement between two cheaters (the seller and the purchaser). If they instead use a cheat to acquire items for trade in game, I still say 'good for them' as the lowered price of the items benefits me. I can adequately determine the true market value of an item and make a choice, and I can always choose not to trade with those I don't know. You're right that maphack doesn't help you get the best items but it certainly gives you an advantage over a nonmaphack user. You WILL get your drops faster and if playing hardcore, safer than a nonmaphack user.
Great post Tal.
If you don't mind I'd like to add something in reply to Kershner's original post: ![[Image: horseglue.jpg]](http://people.bu.edu/laskey/horseglue.jpg) Cheers to beating a very dead topic to death, Munk
08-12-2005, 07:53 PM
whoops wrong spot
08-12-2005, 07:53 PM
Only in single player.
If you are on Bnet, Map Hacking is wrong. If you mean not connected to Bnet(with a toon never to be connected to Bnet) it really is just yor business. Lame IMO - but you have the right to be lame by yourself.
08-13-2005, 06:24 AM
Chaostheory,Aug 12 2005, 03:44 PM Wrote:Yeah, i heard about it too...well my acc's sucked and my chars were just sorcs with decent items (not even close to leet) so i dont really care, but having to restart my starcraft brood wars record is really gay (even tho its all losses) and being banned from ALL REALMS for 1 month is not that bad but pretty gay. repeat offenses is permanent ban.
08-13-2005, 06:25 AM
Ghostiger,Aug 12 2005, 07:53 PM Wrote:Only in single player. u know wuts funny tho 99% of people that are avid d2 players say maphack is lame but at least 90% of people that do baal runs leave if throne isnt found in like 2 mins (wich is uncommon without hack even with a quick tele sorc.
08-13-2005, 12:22 PM
No - its funny that you think we care about your opinion.
08-13-2005, 12:55 PM
S P A C E,Aug 13 2005, 02:24 AM Wrote:well my acc's sucked and my chars were just sorcs with decent items (not even close to leet) so i dont really care, but having to restart my starcraft brood wars record is really gay (even tho its all losses) and being banned from ALL REALMS for 1 month is not that bad but pretty gay. Gay does not equal bad in polite company. You are in polite company here. I'll ask you to utillize a thesaurus if gay is the best term you can come up with.
08-13-2005, 12:56 PM
S P A C E,Aug 13 2005, 02:25 AM Wrote:u know wuts funny tho 99% of people that are avid d2 players say maphack is lame 99% of statistics are made up on the spot. :)
08-13-2005, 01:03 PM
Tal,Aug 13 2005, 12:55 PM Wrote:Gay does not equal bad in polite company. You are in polite company here. I'll ask you to utillize a thesaurus if gay is the best term you can come up with. Random House Webster's yields: Syn. 1. gleeful, jovial, glad, joyous, happy, cheerful, sprightly, blithe, airy, light-hearted; vivacious, frolicsome, sportive, hilarious. GAY, JOLLY, JOYFUL, MERRY describe a happy or light-hearted mood. GAY suggests a lightness of heart or liveliness of mood that is openly manifested: when hearts were young and gay. JOLLY indicates a good-humored, natural, expansive gaiety of mood or disposition: a jolly crowd at a party. JOYFUL suggests gladness, happiness, rejoicing: joyful over the good news. MERRY is often interchangeable with gay: a merry disposition; a merry party; it suggests, even more than the latter, convivial animated enjoyment. 2. brilliant. âAnt.1. unhappy, mournful.
08-13-2005, 02:42 PM
Perhaps - Gay isnt used a pejorative in polite company.
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