Stormrage - Saturday Raid

[Kevin]

So after the Onyxia attempt tonight Darian put out in raid that we were going to try for Saturday in Molten Core. I honestly wasn't expecting to get a weekend run going this quick but I didn't let the opportunity slip. We will be trying to take out Lucifron and maybe just farming trash mobs this Saturday (the 13th) at 8pm server time. So if you want to go be there at 7pm server time if at all possible. I want to go in and start killing things as soon as we get about 25 people there (assuming we have the classes we need to kill the early stuff).

Molten Core is more fun than Onyxia for most people.

If you need to be attuned and you aren't post here and we'll see about doing that Friday or Saturday morning. I'll see you all Saturday!

[Tal]

So after the Onyxia attempt tonight Darian put out in raid that we were going to try for Saturday in Molten Core.  I honestly wasn't expecting to get a weekend run going this quick but I didn't let the opportunity slip.  We will be trying to take out Lucifron and maybe just farming trash mobs this Saturday (the 13th) at 8pm server time.  So if you want to go be there at 7pm server time if at all possible.  I want to go in and start killing things as soon as we get about 25 people there (assuming we have the classes we need to kill the early stuff). 

Molten Core is more fun than Onyxia for most people.

If you need to be attuned and you aren't post here and we'll see about doing that Friday or Saturday morning.  I'll see you all Saturday!
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I dunno yet my availability. I may need to farm faction with the wife to be able to get there. To be honest I don't know if I wanna even go - kind of tired of the lack of communication.

[Mirajj]

I will try to be there, though I may show late. The current "problem" with my weekends off is that there are so few 'good' ones in Canada, that they tend to be put to use with BBQ's, rafting, hiking, that sort of thing, as the cold weather will soon enough fly.

So...I shall try to be there, but can sadly promise nothing at the moment.

[Kevin]

I dunno yet my availability. I may need to farm faction with the wife to be able to get there. To be honest I don't know if I wanna even go - kind of tired of the lack of communication.
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If you can't make it you can't make it. I've pretty much decided though that there will be one of each class as an assistant. If people of that class are not communicating what needs to be communicated then the assistant can feel free to kick that person from the raid. Lack of communication has bit us before since I've been told this is my raid I'm going to try a new way to deal with it. This is supposed to be fun and it seems we get the most frustrated when communication breaks down. I'm willing to take the heat as a raid leader if we think we have to kick people out.

Mirajj> Same thing if you can't be there you can't be there. I think we only need about 25 or so to actually get in there and kill a few things. We'll need more for Lucifron but if we can't get there we can't get there. This is a short notice type of deal. So I understand.


And on that note, if this works here is what Darian has proposed for the plan going forward so that we can try and get everyone the opportunity to get into both Molten Core and Onyxia. This starts with tonight. So this is week 1.

1Thursday: Onyxia
1Saturday: MC
2Monday: MC
2Thursday: MC
2Saturday: Onyxia
3Monday: MC
3Thursday: MC
3Saturday: MC
4Monday: Onyxia
4Thursday: MC
4Saturday: MC
5Monday: MC
5Thursday: Onyxia (and the loop starts again here).

I like this rotation if things work out. Saturday start times may be getting tweaked a bit though. But it gets you pretty much everything on every day. So that means that even if you can only make one of the 3 nights you should have the chance, over a 5 week period, to see just about everything that Molten Core and Onyxia have to offer.

[Tal]

Wife faction secured for an 8pm start by repeating quest "Make dinner and bring flowers". May also pick up "Back rub" and "Take child off her hands" to bring myself back up to honored before Saturday.

Count on me to be there, with Sharanna, but expect unhappy folks if the level of communication doesn't go up and I start kicking none responsive paladins. ;)

[mjdoom]

I think we only need about 25 or so to actually get in there and kill a few things.  [right][snapback]85810[/snapback][/right]

First off I'm not sure that I will be available on Saturday so don't plan on me being there. I would like to point out though that if you can even get enough people to go in and kill some trash there is plenty of benefit. Those trash mobs can drop some epics as well as things like essences of fire, lava cores, and fiery cores. Core leather can also be skinned. Many of these things are useful for crafting various high end equipment such as Dark Iron Helm which would be useful for tanks and many other things. Even if bosses can't be killed some good items can be crafted with the blue lootz you can get :)

- mjdoom

[Sabra]

Count on me to be there, with Sharanna, but expect unhappy folks if the level of communication doesn't go up and I start kicking none responsive paladins. ;)

There is no reason on earth why someone who is communicated with should not answer, at least to confirm that they read what you wrote. It's rude to the communicator and prejudicial to the entire raid group.

I'm telling you - we are getting to be like a sports team where being able to suit up and play isn't all that much more important than the spirit of cooperation and work ethic you bring along with you.

I like that. I think it speaks to commitment and promise for the future.

God willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be there.

[Tuftears]

I think it helps to create chat channels for specific classes, or sets of classes. For instance, a 'healers' channel where you invite all priests, druids, and paladins, would let you coordinate who's healing which tank, and re-align for different battles, i.e. core hound packs.

Generally, for three tanks (sufficient for most trash mob battles in MC) I suggest that groups 1, 4, and 7 are healing the first tank, groups 2, 5, and 8 are healing the second tank, and 3 and 6 are healing the third tank (usually a 'spare' in case the MT goes down). Groups tend to be balanced with one tank, and one or several healer characters; we try to stick a paladin in each tank's party, for the devotion aura bonus.

For the two-giant battles, you need four tanks (one off-tank on each giant) so I realign to 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3, and 7, and 4 and 8, and emphasize that they're hard hitters, so we need to keep tank HP high.

Communication may be that some people just haven't joined the channel - doing /chatwho thehealerchannel will tell you who's in. Then you compare that with the raid listing to see who hasn't joined, and send the delinquent rascals a tell.

Are Basiners invited? A bunch of Basiners will be at ABCon this weekend, but a bunch more will not be, and thus may be interested in checking out the show. If you post on the Basin SR forum, you might get some more people to help round out the raid!

[Tal]

I think it helps to create chat channels for specific classes, or sets of classes.  For instance, a 'healers' channel where you invite all priests, druids, and paladins, would let you coordinate who's healing which tank, and re-align for different battles, i.e. core hound packs.


Communication may be that some people just haven't joined the channel - doing /chatwho thehealerchannel will tell you who's in.  Then you compare that with the raid listing to see who hasn't joined, and send the delinquent rascals a tell.[right][snapback]85845[/snapback][/right]

Actually the complaint I had was that I spoke in healer, raid and paladin chat as well as on teamspeak to find out what blessings the paladins were doing so I could plan accordingly. The only person to reply to my question was a PRIEST who told me of one paladin using Blessing of Kings. This occurred at the beginning of our last Molten Core Raid as well with the paladins we had then. To the tune of the paladins getting blamed for the wipe because healers got aggro from a lack of salvation. And as I stated then, if I had known that no one was doing salvation on my groups I would have covered it before the fight had begun. And last night all paladins were in healerchat, paladinchat (buffbots - can we change that for this raid GG?), and raid chat. The only response I got from a paladin was one who got upset that I called the other paladins monkeys when I declared I was doing Blessing of Light for the odd groups. ;)

Are Basiners invited?  A bunch of Basiners will be at ABCon this weekend, but a bunch more will not be, and thus may be interested in checking out the show.  If you post on the Basin SR forum, you might get some more people to help round out the raid!
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I don't see why not. :)

Edit: I'm sure that I'm being viewed as being anal about the whole blessing thing but I believe in doing my job to the best of my abilities. This includes making sure that my blessings are not overwriting someone else's and their's in turn are not overwriting mine. I was almost ready to shelve Sharanna as a raider because of the lack of communication on the recent raids. As Sabra said, there is NO reason why I shouldn't be responded to on my inquiries. If I can't do my job I see no reason why I should raid...

[Kevin]

I think it helps to create chat channels for specific classes, or sets of classes.  For instance, a 'healers' channel where you invite all priests, druids, and paladins, would let you coordinate who's healing which tank, and re-align for different battles, i.e. core hound packs.

Generally, for three tanks (sufficient for most trash mob battles in MC) I suggest that groups 1, 4, and 7 are healing the first tank, groups 2, 5, and 8 are healing the second tank, and 3 and 6 are healing the third tank (usually a 'spare' in case the MT goes down).  Groups tend to be balanced with one tank, and one or several healer characters; we try to stick a paladin in each tank's party, for the devotion aura bonus.

For the two-giant battles, you need four tanks (one off-tank on each giant) so I realign to 1 and 5, 2 and 6, 3, and 7, and 4 and 8, and emphasize that they're hard hitters, so we need to keep tank HP high.

Communication may be that some people just haven't joined the channel - doing /chatwho thehealerchannel will tell you who's in.  Then you compare that with the raid listing to see who hasn't joined, and send the delinquent rascals a tell.

Are Basiners invited?  A bunch of Basiners will be at ABCon this weekend, but a bunch more will not be, and thus may be interested in checking out the show.  If you post on the Basin SR forum, you might get some more people to help round out the raid!
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We do have seperate channels for classes. People weren't listening in them. And we've generally never had a problem with the healers knowing who to heal. It's been tanks that don't follow orders and paladins that don't bother to buff and just general people not paying attention to stopping DPS calls that have been the biggest weaknesses in the communication lines.

Basiner's are invited. If we somehow manage to get more than 40 interested our small guild alliance starting with Lurkers, Carpe Aurum, House Harpell and the others that I'm forgetting at the moment that get preference on spots. However even with Basiner's there I don't think this will be a problem. The tranq shot will also be awarded to a hunter of our choice as we are trying to assure that we have 3 hunters with it available for the majority of the raids that our alliance is doing.

[Darian]

I think it helps to create chat channels for specific classes, or sets of classes.[right][snapback]85845[/snapback][/right]

We do that. :)

Communication may be that some people just haven't joined the channel - doing /chatwho thehealerchannel will tell you who's in.

The people in question were in the channel, just not paying attention. ;)

Are Basiners invited?

We actually had several Basiners with us on Onyxia last night, as a bunch of guild members who are normally available weren't last night.

I have to avoid stepping on GG's toes here as this Saturday is his baby so to speak, although I'm certain he intends to keep our general raid lockout situation clear. So nothing I'm about to say applies to this Saturday's MC run except to whatever extent GG concurs. ;) Edit: I see that he already concurred while I was busy typing. ;D

For Mondays and Thursdays... as a rule, the invitation is certainly open to Basiners. We've done a pretty poor job of communicating that (partially because of the channel bug, and partially because when we started our raid rotation I was under the assumption that Basin and GoE were already occupied with joint raids).

However... be aware that there may not always be room. As long as they're on time, members of the guilds which have allied for this specific purpose of tackling end-game don't get excluded.

[Darian]

It's been tanks that don't follow orders
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Hey, that shouldn't be plural <cough>.

[Tuftears]

I was under the assumption that Basin and GoE were already occupied with joint raids

This is largely hearsay but I got the impression a number of GoEs went on to a different guild, Righteous Hope. Certainly looking up select people shows them wearing a different guild tag. Strange stuff.

At any rate, at this time there aren't any regularly scheduled Basin raids. Hiryuu115 is trying to put together a MC run for this coming weekend - August 19-20 - but looking at the below schedule, I see there would be a potential conflict, since raiders who killed Lucifron on Saturday would get locked out of a different MC raid on Monday/Thursday.

Speaking personally and not as any kind of Basin representative, I think it'd be great if we could all get on the same page, since I think we all share an interest in participating in end-game raids without having to join a raiding guild - who are the right people to talk to about this? (i.e. for telling a Basin officer, 'Hey, we should talk to X of Y')

Actually the complaint I had was that I spoke in healer, raid and paladin chat as well as on teamspeak to find out what blessings the paladins were doing so I could plan accordingly. The only person to reply to my question was a PRIEST who told me of one paladin using Blessing of Kings

Sorry if I sounded patronizing - it was not my intention to do so. I've always had good luck with healers in a healers' channel for assigning duties.

It's surprising that paladins weren't cooperating in this regard. Could it be that someone needs to start calling the shots - i.e. saying X, you do blessing Y on groups 1, 3, 5, and 7, Y, you do blessing Y on groups 2, 4, 6, and 8? I've found that people don't really like to take initiative, but they'll follow orders when they are given.

[Tal]

It's surprising that paladins weren't cooperating in this regard.&nbsp; Could it be that someone needs to start calling the shots - i.e. saying X, you do blessing Y on groups 1, 3, 5, and 7, Y, you do blessing Y on groups 2, 4, 6, and 8?&nbsp; I've found that people don't really like to take initiative, but they'll follow orders when they are given.
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I'm rapidly coming around to this mindset. I'll probably poll the paladins that show up and find out what blessings they have and assign roles. :)

[martini]

This is coming from an outsider, since I wasn't in the healerchat, but there might have also been some raid-fatigue at the point where you came in, Tal. We had already wiped twice and the Pallies would have known what their assigned blessings were for over an hour at that point, so they might not have been eagle-eyeing the chat channel. I know that I was paying far more attention to the hunter channel before we made our first attempt than between wipes. :P Obviously, keeping energy and concentration up is a good thing for raiding, so hopefully this will continue to improve.

Unfortunately (well, fortunately, but not for the MC raid), I have plans on Saturday night, so I won't be able to come.

I agree that even farming trash mobs can be fun with 25 people. We've done it a couple of times, and got some epic set pieces as well as the crafting materials.

[Darian]

Speaking personally and not as any kind of Basin representative, I think it'd be great if we could all get on the same page, since I think we all share an interest in participating in end-game raids without having to join a raiding guild - who are the right people to talk to about this?
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Me and Tal, basically.

[Tuftears]

While looking around for information about raid lockout timers, I found this interesting tidbit:

Seems like it's possible to lock unrelated people into your raid instance.

This thread describes the problem and gives a workaround: the leader of a raid needs to zone in, then out, then back in, before anyone else goes into the zone, and he then receives a new raid instance ID, instead of keeping an old raid instance ID from previous runs.

Thanks, Darian, I'll pass it along! It may be a while since most of the officers are kind of gone this weekend.

[Yuen]

Yuen, Popsie, Gooze will all be there :) thanks for making this happen GG, Darian and Tal :).

Strats and soulstealer may be able to make it as well.

We will try to attune ourselves to the core before the raid (saturday am for us, friday night for you guys)

[Tuftears]

Thanks for the fun! We had a pretty sizable Basin contingent along, and the run seemed pretty smooth overall.