What personal freedom is next?

[Mithrandir]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/06/scotus.m...a.ap/index.html

Ironically enough, two of the dissents were Renquist and Thomas, with O'Connor being the third.

The decision itself is just pure and utter bull#$%&. Their main legal precedent is a 1942 case involving a man growing wheat for personal consumption. Wow, thank you Supreme Court. There was also a lot of legal precedent for segregation and slavery at one point, but for some reason a bunch of crazy bastards thought that segregation and slavery weren't Nice Things™ anyway.

Whatever happend to this country being founded on personal liberties and balance of power between states and the federal government? I'm forced to wear a seatbelt at all times "for my own good". The government seeks to control what I put into my own body "for my own good". Et cetera. And now, millions of people suffering from glaucoma, AIDS, cancer, and seizures have just been denied access to the most effective medification possible "for their own good". I'm sure they're going to be very comforted that the government is "looking out for them" when they're wracked with pain and their lives are made more miserable.

#$%& that. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach when bureaucratic knob-polishers feel the need to force their convoluted sense of morals - which should have no place in politics to begin with - upon the population as a whole.

It really makes me sad to see the policy of "My morality is now your morality... or else you get thrown in jail" perpetuated throughout our government. A couple weeks ago it was the ban on "sexy cheerleading" in Texas and now it's this. I honestly have to ask myself: What's next? Back to blue laws? Prohibition? Individuals running with scissors will be ticketed?

(Yeah, I know you guys hear a lot of this from me. But I needed to vent.)

[Any1]

This decision probably has more to do with the states' rights to over-rule federal restrictions, than the issue of medical MJ.

I think there certainly is legitimate uses for medical MJ. However, unless MJ can be harvested, processed, and regulated like a real medicine, the potential for misuse will be too great. Take opium for example, there are legitimate medical uses for its derivatives (synthetic and otherwise). These are indeed available when perscribed by a physician. However, you don't see an average Joe with his own Poppy fields, processing lab, and store front selling them to "patients". This unfortunately (for the people who really need it) is exactly the case with medical MJ.

[Guest]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/06/scotus.m...a.ap/index.html
And now, millions of people suffering from glaucoma, AIDS, cancer, and seizures have just been denied access to the most effective medification possible "for their own good".


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Exaggerate much?

Im not disagreeing with your over all point. But youll get more respect on an issue like that if youre honest.

[Chaerophon]

Exaggerate much?

Im not disagreeing with your over all point. But youll get more respect on an issue like that if youre honest.
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Well, there are certainly hundreds of thousands for whom medical marijuana may be an option... what's your point? I'm not so sure Mith's so far off. It's about whose options have been constrained, not about the number of actual users.

[Count Duckula]

Exaggerate much?

Im not disagreeing with your over all point. But youll get more respect on an issue like that if youre honest.
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God's Thumbs. The man will quarrel with the breeze.

I'm just sorry for those who need medicinal marijuana. With this, it's probably going to get more expensive and dangerous to obtain. (Read Reefer Madness, by the same guy who did Fast Food Nation, and you'll come to know how hard it is to get medicinal marijuana before all this crap.)

[Ashock]

And now, millions of people suffering from glaucoma, AIDS, cancer, and seizures have just been denied access to the most effective medification possible "for their own good".
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Weird.... I thought it was billions and billions... oh sorry, that's Carl Sagan.


-A


Edit:

ps. Pot is not an effective medication. It simply makes life more comfortable for those patients. It does not treat! That does not mean that I agree with this decision, but let's get the facts straight first, shall we?

[Occhidiangela]

Dreaded double post. :angry: Not sure what the root cause is.

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/06/scotus.m...a.ap/index.html

Ironically enough, two of the dissents were Renquist and Thomas, with O'Connor being the third.

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The War on Drugs now evokes a spectre that will excuse Liberals and the various whacko militias to make common cause. There is a strange alliance. Or are the Libs just gonna be sheep on this one?

I am disappointed by this. It's a chest thumping between DOJ and the State's sovereign right to pass laws per the Constitution. That Thomas and Rhenquist came down on the side of State's Rights should scream "reality check." O Connor is right.

The case concerned two seriously ill California women, Angel Raich and Diane Monson. The two had sued then-U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, asking for a court order letting them smoke, grow or obtain marijuana without fear of arrest, home raids or other intrusion by federal authorities.

Raich, an Oakland woman suffering from ailments including scoliosis, a brain tumor, chronic nausea, fatigue and pain, smokes marijuana every few hours. She said she was partly paralyzed until she started smoking pot. Monson, an accountant who lives near Oroville, California, has degenerative spine disease and grows her own marijuana plants in her backyard.

My younger brother works in SF, and is mildly familiar with this case. Will be talking to him soon.

Against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That's the oath I swore.

I'm about done with foreign. Domestic needs attention.

Occhi

EDIT:

Justice John Paul Stevens, writing the 6-3 decision, said that Congress could change the law to allow medical use of marijuana.

Write your Senators, write your Congressmen. Get involved. The people need to be heard from.

[Mithrandir]

Exaggerate much?[right][snapback]79880[/snapback][/right]

http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2002/Mar/

"It is evident that the drug has provided relief to millions of Americans who suffer from painful illnesses."

[Doc]

So, who wants to join me in smoking a bowl on the White House lawn in protest?

Haven't smoked in years, this should be great.

[Any1]

ps. Pot is not an effective medication. It simply makes life more comfortable for those patients. It does not treat! That does not mean that I agree with this decision, but let's get the facts straight first, shall we?
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So are most opiates, and they are clearly in the "medication" category. The term Medicine is not only relegated to chemicals used for addressing the cause of the disease, but also of its symptoms (i.e. nausea, pain, etc.)

[Mithrandir]

ps. Pot is not an effective medication. It simply makes life more comfortable for those patients. It does not treat! That does not mean that I agree with this decision, but let's get the facts straight first, shall we?
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http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

MYTH: MARIJUANA HAS NO MEDICINAL VALUE. Safer, more effective drugs are available. They include a synthetic version of THC, marijuana's primary active ingredient, which is marketed in the United States under the name Marinol.

FACT: Marijuana has been shown to be effective in reducing the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, and reducing intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. There is also appreciable evidence that marijuana reduces muscle spasticity in patients with neurological disorders. A synthetic capsule is available by prescription, but it is not as effective as smoked marijuana for many patients. Pure THC may also produce more unpleasant psychoactive side effects than smoked marijuana. Many people use marijuana as a medicine today, despite its illegality. In doing so, they risk arrest and imprisonment.

http://www.edu.pe.ca/rural/botany/medicin/marijuana.htm

Medicinal Value

(http://www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/hemp/ukcia2.html)here

    * Helps patients suffering from aids, by reducing vomiting, nausea, and lack of appetite causing the patients to eat more and gain weight.
    * It helps patients suffering from Glaucoma.  It reduces the pain and sometimes stopping the disease.
    * It helps cancer patients by stimulating the appetite and lessening the the nausea and vomiting, these are the common side effects of chemotherapy treatment.
    *  Multiple Sclerosis patients are helped by the use of marijuana by limiting the muscle pain caused by the disease, as well as alleviating tremors.
    *  Epilepsy patients can be helped with the use of marijuana to prevent epileptic seizures.
    *  Marijuana can help chronic pain by reducing the pain caused by disorders and injuries.
    *  Other patients have reported that marijuana is useful for treating arthritis, migraines, alcohol and opiate addictions, and depression and other mood disorders.



Facts About Marijuana as Medicine:

(http://altmed.creighton.edu/medicalmarij....htm)  here

    *  Ninety percent of glaucoma victims can benefit from the use of marijuana.
    * Marijuana is the best dilator of the little air tubes of the lungs, and bronchioles, opening them up to allow more oxygen into the blood.
    * Chest pain, shortness of breath, headaches and such, can be helped by light smoking of marijuana throughout the day.
    * Marijuana is the best way known to dry the mouths saliva in dentistry.  If it marijuana was legal, it would replace the toxic and deadly Probanthine.
    * Marijuana also was proved to relive asthma attacks and improve breathing.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm

The Institute of Medicine's 1999 report on medical marijuana stated, "The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."

[Occhidiangela]

*Snort*

Shortness of breath can be treated by smoking Marijuana? There's a paradox.

What active agent besides the THC is it that is in Marijuana that supresses that variety of symptoms for that variety of ailments? THC is not the only compound in the weed.

How well established are the synergistic effects of the various compounds? From the comments, it seems that THC itself is not the only chemical acting to alleviate various symptoms for a patient.

Occhi

"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."

And not other drugs can do this? Or is it that no single drug can do all of these things at once?

Or, is this all a smokescreen? :D

Weed advocates have spouted as many half truths as weed's enemy's since I started watching decriminalization debates in the 70's.

The core issue is not medical, it is Constitutional.

Occhi

[Guest]

"Evident" implies evidense. I have never seen anything suggesting that more 1 out of every 150 Americans should be taking mary jane for legit medical reason much less that they have already tried it.


Im believe it is appropriate for some people, I have no reason to believe that many people need it though.


If it really is needed by that many people then I do see a need for caution because it was availble for that many people there is no way to effectively regulate it - much like oxycotin.

[Any1]

*Snort*

Shortness of breath can be treated by smoking Marijuana?  There's a paradox.

What active agent besides the THC is it that is in Marijuana that supresses that variety of symptoms for that variety of ailments?  THC is not the only compound in the weed. 

How well established are the synergistic effects of the various compounds?  From the comments, it seems that THC itself is not the only chemical acting to alleviate various symptoms for a patient.

Occhi

"The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation."

And not other drugs can do this?  Or is it that no single drug can do all of these things at once? 

Or, is this all a smokescreen?  :D 

Weed advocates have spouted as many half truths as weed's enemy's since I started watching decriminalization debates in the 70's. 

The core issue is not medical, it is Constitutional.

Occhi
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You're correct, there are two issues here:

1. States' rights versus the federal goverment's mandates. This one been brewing since Jefferson and Adams. Unfortunately, it's been sliding the wrong way for about 200 years. This being the latest symptom.

2. How to move medical MJ from the store-front "clubs" into pharmacies. You've got to convince the drug companies there's money to be made. They'll handle the legislation, through the usual back channels.

[Guest]

Ya that would be great.

[Nystul]

I am disappointed by this.  It's a chest thumping between DOJ and the State's sovereign right to pass laws per the Constitution.  That Thomas and Rhenquist came down on the side of State's Rights should scream "reality check." 

Of course one can take the flip side and say that if the only people who dissented were the Court's most dedicated federalists, the case was essentially a slam dunk from the beginning. As federal intrusion on states' rights go, this is only the tip of the iceberg. If regulating local marijuana sales is outside of the federal scope, then how about local gun sales? With a strict enough Supreme Court interpretation we could probably overturn 2/3 of the federal laws and abolish half of the executive departments... I don't see it ever happening though. The Democrats would never let 5 such justices get confirmed, and I'm not sure the Republicans would be too eager to nominate them in the first place.

As for Justice Stevens suggestion.... right. Since he believes the government has the authority to do this, why should anyone care that he personally wants the law changed?

[Sir_Die_alot]

Living in California I see local news reports now and then about "medical" marijuana. While I'm sure there are some people using it legitimately, when the news brings a camera into one of these shops the sickest among the customers looks like they might be treating a mild cold. I voted for the proposition, but I was a naive 18 year old and didn't see it for the sideways legalization it was. While I would still say it's fine to use if you really have a use for it to relieve symptoms; it is very obvious that, in California at least, many people are using it simply to recreate.

As far as this ruling goes though I think it's crap. Despite my thinking our law is a POS, I still think it is a state matter and up to us to fix. I had never heard of this you can't grow wheat thing either. What kind of BS is that? OH NO SOMEONE IS GOING TO MAKE HOMEMADE BREAD CALL THE FBI! :P

[Doc]

Living in California I see local news reports now and then about "medical" marijuana. While I'm sure there are some people using it legitimately, when the news brings a camera into one of these shops the sickest among the customers looks like they might be treating a mild cold. I voted for the proposition, but I was a naive 18 year old and didn't see it for the sideways legalization it was. While I would still say it's fine to use if you really have a use for it to relieve symptoms; it is very obvious that, in California at least, many people are using it simply to recreate.

As far as this ruling goes though I think it's crap. Despite my thinking our law is a POS, I still think it is a state matter and up to us to fix. I had never heard of this you can't grow wheat thing either. What kind of BS is that? OH NO SOMEONE IS GOING TO MAKE HOMEMADE BREAD CALL THE FBI! :P
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If somebody tries to stop me from making my own bread...

I'm gonna pop their skull with my marble rolling pin and beat them with a cast iron pan.

Never mess with a cook in his or her own kitchen!

[Doc]

Personal freedom needs to be respected.

Anybody coming into my kitchen to tell me what to do... I'll sift their flour and roll their dough.

And for God's sake, leave the herb alone. It's harmless really.

Being able to grow hemp in the USA would be a boon.