Another lost level 60

[Alarick]

I feel bad having to post this, but it's official now.

I have just cancelled the subscription for WoW, so I will not be playing anymore starting June 9th.

It's a shame, but I have been thinking about this for a couple weeks now. I never feel like playing anymore. The instance grinds bore me, and that's assuming I have the time to sit down for them anymore. Part of it is luck, but I've only seen 2 pieces of the Devout set, one someone else got because I had already picked up a blue that run, and another was sent to me by Grizz.

The end game is just a bore, and I can't see myself continuing to sit there on the handful of days when I can get a group to do instance runs. I don't, and for all purposes will never, have time to do Molton Core runs. Thus, I'm already heavily limited in what I will ever be able to do in game.

At the end of the summer, I may be back. I'm going to keep track of what is coming for the game across those 3 months, but I doubt the 2 or 3 patches that will be put out over the summer (hopefully) will add enough to make me want to come back.

There needs to be more casual content in the game. A game that places progression solely on items is severely limited in long-term content to begin with. The "casual" content in the game offers very little new items to "progress" a character.

In my eyes, Blizzard needs to either stop marketing the game as casual friendly, or add a large amount of casual content into the end game. There needs to be something to keep those players busy at level 60 even if they can only play and hour or 2 a night. I fall into this category, and I feel that there's little to nothing for me to do in game on a typical night.

Sure, I could do a DM run, but without a well-versed group, it could easily pass that 2 hour mark, and it has for me in the past. I'm sure the west instance would take longer than 2 hours for an average run.

Hopefully, you will all see Alarick back in Ironforge again this coming fall. At the current rate and typical type of content being added to the game, it doesn't seem very likely.

I will be on a few times in the last two weeks, but as it has been for the past couple weeks, it probably won't be much as I have little reason to keep getting on.

[Tal]

:(

[LochnarITB]

I never enjoy seeing someone leave, but I couldn't agree more with your comments about casual content. I have been making that contention since I capped Lochnar. Even though I have much of my day available to play, other factors make it difficult to stay at the keyboard more than an hour or so at a time, without an afk. 5 mans sometimes get annoyed when you have to afk and, for raids, it's even worse. If there is content I can play at a casual pace, going afk when need be, without holding up other players, I am a happy camper. Casual content doesn't have to be solo. Blizzard would better serve themselves, and a large part of their player base, if they didn't concentrate everything in mega-instances. They could create several smaller instances. Each one could offer 2 or 3 goals, be they named bosses or find the foozle, instead of 10 or 20. They could each be geared toward different party makeups or even some that are level appropriate but still soloable. These smaller instances would take fewer resources from both a creation and a maintenance standpoint, so they would be cost effective for Bliz too.

Ah well, a Gnome can dream, can't he? :(

[bernard shakey]

I never enjoy seeing someone leave, but I couldn't agree more with your comments about casual content.  I have been making that contention since I capped Lochnar.  Even though I have much of my day available to play, other factors make it difficult to stay at the keyboard more than an hour or so at a time, without an afk.  5 mans sometimes get annoyed when you have to afk and, for raids, it's even worse.  If there is content I can play at a casual pace, going afk when need be, without holding up other players, I am a happy camper.  Casual content doesn't have to be solo.  Blizzard would better serve themselves, and a large part of their player base, if they didn't concentrate everything in mega-instances.  They could create several smaller instances.  Each one could offer 2 or 3 goals, be they named bosses or find the foozle, instead of 10 or 20.  They could each be geared toward different party makeups or even some that are level appropriate but still soloable.  These smaller instances would take fewer resources from both a creation and a maintenance standpoint, so they would be cost effective for Bliz too.

Ah well, a Gnome can dream, can't he?  :(
[right][snapback]78192[/snapback][/right]

That would be nice but, it will never happen. As I'm sure you know, farming would be to easy if it offered charecter improving gear. so as usual actual players suffer because of possible (inevetable) exploit.

[Treesh]

Even though I have much of my day available to play, other factors make it difficult to stay at the keyboard more than an hour or so at a time, without an afk.  5 mans sometimes get annoyed when you have to afk and, for raids, it's even worse.  If there is content I can play at a casual pace, going afk when need be, without holding up other players, I am a happy camper. 
[right][snapback]78192[/snapback][/right]

You'd fit right in with most of the people I group with in this game. :) I'm very used to having afk's pop up from various people and it isn't annoying at all to me. When someone else calls an afk, that gives me an excuse to get some water or just stand up and stretch. Yeah, it makes the instances take a bit longer, but the breaks are nice. I'm usually not the one asking for breaks, but I'll gladly take advantage of them. :)

[Quark]

I understand your viewpoint perfectly. It would be nice to see less heavy end-game stuff. They say the next instance after Blackwing's Lair will be a 15-20 group area, but who knows what the time commitment to it will be?

In my eyes, Blizzard needs to either stop marketing the game as casual friendly, or add a large amount of casual content into the end game.

This is something I contend, though. How many hours did you have /played before you reached 60? I know I had a good amount of days total. A casual gamer doesn't play a game to the end, then keep going to kill the same boss over and over again. Once they've seen it, they move on. Time for a new game. And it's impossible for Blizzard to keep enough content flowing so that they stay ahead of players. It simply won't happen unless that person's almost never on.

I say people who come in, expect a few months of play time, get to 60, then leave are getting exactly what they want. Blizzard is targetting casual gamers to play the game, but they won't keep footing the bill month after month. So get the casual players, let them have their fun to 60, then craft 60 around the hard core gamers who will keep playing. If you have the casual gameplay at 60 as rewarding as the hardcore gaming, you make the hardcore side useless. Blizzard can never make both sides happy at 60, so it makes business sense to make the side that's more likely to stay happy.

[Mirajj]

You'd fit right in with most of the people I group with in this game. :)  I'm very used to having afk's pop up from various people and it isn't annoying at all to me.  When someone else calls an afk, that gives me an excuse to get some water or just stand up and stretch.  Yeah, it makes the instances take a bit longer, but the breaks are nice.  I'm usually not the one asking for breaks, but I'll gladly take advantage of them. :)
[right][snapback]78198[/snapback][/right]

Yep. I've never minded someone asking for an afk (and have been that person a couple of times) and usually take that time to rotate some fluids. Makes the instance more enjoyable for me. I don't like being chained to my desk.

[Alarick]

If you have the casual gameplay at 60 as rewarding as the hardcore gaming, you make the hardcore side useless.  Blizzard can never make both sides happy at 60, so it makes business sense to make the side that's more likely to stay happy.
[right][snapback]78206[/snapback][/right]

I understand that casual content shouldn't be as rewarding, but I feel like there's nothing I can reasonably do that will progress my character at all.

I still wonder what the real answer to the typical question I see "casual" gamers ask of hardcore gamers. If I invest 100 hours over the course of 4 months, why should I not have similar rewards to those people that invest 100 hours in 3-4 weeks?

I wanted to think I could progress my character, which in terms of this games means new, more powerful items. With only a couple hours at a time to play, there's really only one instance to do, and I don't see myself running one instance that many times. Even if I did, the loot tables are not tremendously generous to begin with.

I don't see how having a bit of casual content every two or so patches would be a bad thing. Hardcore gamers would still be able to do it, and faster for that matter, and casual gamers would get something to do.

I say people who come in, expect a few months of play time, get to 60, then leave are getting exactly what they want. Blizzard is targetting casual gamers to play the game, but they won't keep footing the bill month after month.
[right][snapback]78206[/snapback][/right]

I wasn't one of the people that expected to play only for a few months simply getting to 60. I did, however, expect to have as much to do at 60 as beforehand, and that's what is not the case. What I meant by my comment about Blizzard needing to change their focus in advertising the game was simply this. The game probably would hold a lot of casual gamers longer than 60 levels if there were things to do in that short time commitment these players have.

I feel a lot of the people that are leaving because of the lack of casual content didn't
come in with the attitude of getting to 60 then moving on. The extreme change in the style of play at level 60 is what I was not prepared for, in reality, and it is the biggest reason for leaving.

Perhaps it's just me trying to find something that could be done for me to start playing again come fall. I just don't see it happening, sadly. There's alot that would need to be done, and I've seen little reason to believe Blizzard will do it, even with the little speach they give when I cancelled citing lack of "solo" content.

[Tal]

I can guarantee Loch that at least for this Tank, I do not begrudge you your AFKs. :)

[LochnarITB]

Thanks Tal and Treesh. :wub: However, I would point out that both of you epitomize my view of a typical Lurker. That would be intelligent, mature and tolerant gamers. I can't say the same about most of the people playing. It sometimes feels like finding a good pickup group is longer odds than betting my local lottery. As more Lurkers cap, the pool of end game players improves.

As I have said before, and Alarick said also, the game changes immensely when characters cap. The door is slammed in the face of the casual player. I don't buy the argument that anyone that takes a character to cap in WoW is not a casual player. It is simply too easy to cap in this game. Blizzard takes the money of the casual gamer just the same as the hardcore. They do a disservice to the gamers and themselves when the only new content being added, for which each player pays the same monthly fee, is truly for the hardcore player who can invest large blocks of time to explore the depths of mega-instances. Battlegrounds may alleviate some of this, but I have not experienced that yet to know if they are set up in such a way that players can jump into or out of the middle of a battle.

[Quark]

Of course, you are leaving just before the best supposed thing for non-hardcore 60s is patched into the game - Battlegrounds. If CTF in Warsong is half as cool as the concept sounds, it'll be a great addition to the game.

[Treesh]

That would be intelligent, mature and tolerant gamers.
[right][snapback]78220[/snapback][/right]

Emphasis added.

:blush: Does this mean no more fartycone jokes? :P Or one I "heard" that still makes me chuckle - "Why did the spider cross the road? To die" :D Some days I'm easily amused. ;)

[Phoenix]

Of course, you are leaving just before the best supposed thing for non-hardcore 60s is patched into the game - Battlegrounds.  If CTF in Warsong is half as cool as the concept sounds, it'll be a great addition to the game.
[right][snapback]78224[/snapback][/right]

CTF is supremely awesome, when you play with a group who at least shows remote signs of intelligence. If they don't, well you can just leave and enter a new BG instance.

[Arnulf]

[...]

I don't buy the argument that anyone that takes a character to cap in WoW is not a casual player.  It is simply too easy to cap in this game.  Blizzard takes the money of the casual gamer just the same as the hardcore. [...]
[right][snapback]78220[/snapback][/right]

That makes me think. What exactly is a casual gamer in this context?

Someone who plays every evening for only half an hour? Someone who plays for only 4 hours max per week? Someone who does that and stays to the game for, let's say, two years?

I mean I came back to Diablo 2 every now and then, while I never got a character over 74 I made a plethora of them. I came back to D2 because there was nothing else at the moment that took my fancy. And the instant the first blue thing dropped I was hooked again. Although my playing style was at times casual, it sometimes took the turn to the hardcore playing style. With creating characters specially built around certain items, etc.

To come back to the matter at hand, I would say that someone who plays only for half an hour maximum a day, but does this for two years straight, that someone is a hardcore player to me.

A casual player in my eyes would be someone who plays the game maybe for two months and caps one character, maybe two. Then cancels his subsription and moves on to the next game.

-Arnulf

[Alarick]

That makes me think. What exactly is a casual gamer in this context?

Someone who plays every evening for only half an hour? Someone who plays for only 4 hours max per week? Someone who does that and stays to the game for, let's say, two years?

[right][snapback]78233[/snapback][/right]

To me, and I believe to Blizzard (based on comments made by CMs), a casual gamer is one who does not have large contiguous blocks of time to play the game.

This is what I think of when speaking of casual gamers, and I think it fits well. A person who can only play once a week, but in an 8 hour block has a lot more to do come end game than a person who can play 4 times a week for 2 hours at a time.

The end game, currently, is based heavily around instance and raids. While raids usually require multiple day commitments, the instances don't. The instances also take an average of a few hours, more than 2 in the least, and more if you are trying to do the quests and not just get loot.

The CMs on the official boards have made comments that seem to imply this. The fact that they call Dire Maul a more casual instance because the sections are split and can be run in 1-2 hours (with a good group) shows me that the time constraint is the thing that they are looking at.

What bothers me the most is that they keep saying they will add more casual content, but there have been no plans or hints as to what it might be. The only content we know that is coming up includes Battlegrounds, Blackwing Lair, amore difficult and time-consuming raid instance, and Zul'Gurub, a shorter, but still difficult and slightly-less-time-consuming raid instance. They keep promising more content, and yet have made no hints as to when or if it will ever come.

[Guest]

I canceled 3 weeks ago. My account is still active till July I think, but I find myself not logging on.

I dont enjoy the end game at all.
And as much fun as leveling up was the first time, it didnt seem fun when I tried again.

I dont resent this at all: I had a blast while I played. In fact I expected this based on beta reviews, I just had hoped that new content might make a difference.



Of course I might love BGs and start playing when they go live.

[LochnarITB]

There's  alot that would need to be done, and I've seen little reason to believe Blizzard will do it, even with the little speach they give when I cancelled citing lack of "solo" content.
[right][snapback]78217[/snapback][/right]

I forgot to ask in my earlier post. Care to elaborate on the content of "the little speach"? I have a guess as to how they would respond, but I can't, at least not yet, bring myself to cancel to see their response.

[Alarick]

I forgot to ask in my earlier post.  Care to elaborate on the content of "the little speach"?  I have a guess as to how they would respond, but I can't, at least not yet, bring myself to cancel to see their response.
[right][snapback]78255[/snapback][/right]

When picking the option for cancelling because of lack of solo content, it gives a little "speach" (yay for my stupid typos) that says exact what you would expect.

The "promise" more solo and small group content coming in the future, but give no timetable or information about whether it will just be a small set of quests, like the Searing Gorge quests in the coming patch, or whether it will be actual real end game content.

Unfortunately, since I already cancelled, I can't go back and get the exact words. Imagine what you would say if you were trying to keep a person like me playing, and that's probably what it was like.

[Raelynn]

It feels like I might be headed the same way. I'm in until at least June 10th, as I promised my girlfriend Fellwynd that I would at least play up until her 3 month subscription ends around then, but I'm not really looking forward to the change in the gameplay come level 60.

I'm hoping that the battlegrounds will give me something to do that will be different from the instance grind, but I feel those getting boring somewhat quickly, much like the instances (though probably not as quickly as instances since they're more dynamic).

It may change once a patch or two comes out, but right now I just wish there was something better for the people that don't want to sit in instances every night to progress their character at all. If only Blizzard would add the life quests that they have been talking about since beta. :(

[Nystul]

A game that places progression solely on items is severely limited in long-term content to begin with. 
[right][snapback]78184[/snapback][/right]

That was my epiphany after several months in the beta, that the entire game was just an endless quest to get cool items. When I hit that point, I went from playing for many hours a day to having absolutely no desire to play it ever again. The mechanics of the game, the battles themselves, were just not interesting or unique in any way. There was no appeal to grinding for hours in the hopes of eventually getting an item that would improve my character slightly without having any impact on my playing style. Of course, Blizzard has changed a lot even to the basic game mechanics since that stage of the beta.