Druids--the other cow meat.

[Bob the Beholder]

So, I have broken from my tradition of playing way too many DPS characters, and a single tank, and have now been spotted running through Hillsbrad Foothills cowering in fear of the thousands of mounted night elves... which is pretty normal, really, except that I'm a druid now.

Druids are fun. And, unless this changes significantly towards the late-game, they seem to be kind of extremely powerful. Not really all that high on the damage scale, but still enough to get by. But the strength that I have noticed in my random blundering into elite quests without noticing the elite tag, is that a druid actually has some control over what an enemy can do to him.

For example, if you are playing a non-healer, and an enemy starts getting the better of you, you are probably either going to run or die. But with my druid, fighting a similar level elite enemy, he got the better of me, so I entangled him, hit regrowth and rejuvenation, slapped a moonfire on him, went into bear form to take advantage of the double (or thereabouts) damage reduction, and proceeded to kicking butt. (With some shifting around to refresh moonfire and rejuvenation.)

If an enemy's hitting you really hard? Bear form reduces that. If you aren't taking many physical hits, but need to rip the enemy fast and hard? Cat form works out pretty well. If an enemy's damage beats rejuvenation, regrowth, and potions, then you have your caster form to let the moonfire DoT do its job while you spam heals on yourself.

It's just... soo... versatile. An ability, form, or spell for every situation! And I have found the combination of HoTs and bear form to bring out some serious lasting power. (Even in pvp--outlasted AND outdamaged a paldin a level higher than me just about an hour ago.)

The only weakness I can come up with is the lack of anything at all to interrupt spells, unless you are for some reason fighting a caster in bear form, and the caster only casts once per minute.

As it is now, though I am only mid-level, I know I can heal a party through an instance. Or tank through an instance. Or dps with the not-particularly-best of 'em. (I've mainly been tanking, though--it's so very hard to find a decent tank midlevel on a pvp server)

I am currently working on a build to kinda-sorta maximize the ability to fight in beast form, while keeping myself alive through my own powers of healing and potion-crafting. Kind of being my own tank, healer and DPS-monkey. This being about equal distribution through Restoration and Feral Combat, with a bit of balance for Swift-shifting.

And, well, I guess my only real purpse with this thread is pretty basic: Druids are cool. Come heap praise upon our druidic overlords. Or share whatever build-ideas and random semi-druid-based gameplay stories you might have--it's all cool.

[Elegantly]

The only weakness I can come up with is the lack of anything at all to interrupt spells, unless you are for some reason fighting a caster in bear form, and the caster only casts once per minute.

In fact, you have several options for spell interrupts as a Tauren Druid.

First, you have Bash (stun) in Bear form.

Second, you can use War Stomp (Tauren Racial ability, another stun) to interrupt casting.

Third, if you have invested 11 Talent Points in the Feral Tree, chances are high you have picked Improved Bash for longer stuns, and even better, Feral Charge. The latter is very useful to close the distance especially when slowed and it will interrupt spell casting.

Fourth, you might use Engineering items to anger casters. I still have to test whether the disorientation effect of bombs, which has been fixed in the last patch 1.4, will also interrupt spells.

[playingtokrush]

Fourth, you might use Engineering items to anger casters. I still have to test whether the disorientation effect of bombs, which has been fixed in the last patch 1.4, will also interrupt spells.

With the horrendous lag I've been experiencing today, it's a little hard to tell; however, bomb disorientation does seem to interrupt spell casting.

[nobbie]

Druids are fun.  And, unless this changes significantly towards the late-game, they seem to be kind of extremely powerful.  Not really all that high on the damage scale, but still enough to get by. ...

You're saying exactly what I have just thought yesterday, when my (female) Tauren Druid has hit level 20 (cat form). Druids are not high on the DPS scale, but their versality and the constant change in playing style (caster, bear, cat), a basically "free" mount (travel form), and the Revive ability, make them the most fun class to play so far (and I have tested them all by now). I also like the stories and quests around the Druid class with the Cenarion Circle and such, and their close connection to the Nightelf Druids (-> Moonglade/Nighthaven). Actually, I like this "neutral" class so much that my first main on the Alliance side (until now I was Horde only) will be a (female) Nightelf Druid. My second Alliance char will be a Dwarven Hunter, and together with my Undead Warlock, I have now three classes ((hybrid) Druids, Hunter, Warlock) that will allow me to enjoy all playing/fightimg styles on both sides (Alliance/Horde) without investing too much time in the long run :)

What is your planned talent point distribution for level 60?


PS: Herbalism/Alchemy with its potions for extra buffs, mana and healing are *the* number one choice for Duids!

[Bob the Beholder]

What is your planned talent point distribution for level 60?
PS: Herbalism/Alchemy with its potions for extra buffs, mana and healing are *the* number one choice for Duids!
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I agree with you on the alchemy point, although I have had some experience with leatherworking, and I do kind of miss all of the interesting equipmet you can get out of that. But, hey, I've got like 17 healing potions, so that kinda balances out.

As to the talents, my first idea was this:

Feral Combat:

Ferocity 5/5

Sharpened Claws 5/5

Improved Prowl 5/5

Feral Charge 1/1

Predatory Strikes 5/5

Feline Swiftness 1/1

Restoration:

Improved Mark of the Wild 5/5

Furor 5/5

Nature's Focus 5/5

Improved Rejuvenation 5/5

Nature's Swiftness 1/1

Balances:

Nature's Grasps/Improved Nature's Grasp: 5/5

Swiftshifting 3/3

[Brista]

I think it's a superbly thought out and implemented class

It's a very original way to do druids and very fun

I like most the tactical challenges. There is very often a way to beat things but it may not be immediately obvious. I did the Vile Reef quest at 38 which involved killing level 36 elite murlocs, but the ones I found were mainly quite far out to sea. So I had to swim to caster range in sealform, turn caster and nuke to pull, turn bear and melee, then turn caster, heal, then turn seal just in time not to drown. Took me a couple of deaths to figure out but it was very satisfying.

Healing in pickup groups is probably the most enjoyable way to experience pickup groups, imo. I find tanking in pickup groups frustrating on the whole- if everyone's determined to overnuke and three people pull at once you end up as off-tank for a group with no main and you may not be the healer's primary target. With the healer role the worse the group plays the more opportunity you have to shine. And of course as a druid you get the chance to take both roles when grouping

Stealth is fun. Discovering you have an unfinished quest deep in an instance and slipping in to solo it in under half an hour is rather nice

There are all sorts of subtleties that you find out the more you play. I'm only just coming to terms with the fact that I can track humanoids which is very handy for questing.

I like the druid in pvp. Being able to handle runners either by chasing them in cheetah form, by chain nuking them on the run with moonfire or by rooting them with entangle means that it's a lot easier to finish off fights where the opponent decides to run. Being a healer in group pvp means you can support the level 60s which a level 30 something warrior couldn't really do at all except as cannon fodder

We're fairly high on random people's group with list but I don't think we get quite so many spam invites as priests do. Also it's a kind of filter - it seems the really awful pickup group recruiters don't seek druids as much as they do priests, you have to know at least a little bit about the game to realise that druids can main heal so the truly clueless will always seek priests only for a healer where more clued up players might look for either, or even ask how we're specced

[Trien]

I love my druid. L60 on Kel'Thuzad. Damage output is low (very low), though somewhat decent if you get some nice cat gear. But you can last a long time, and roots/travel form (or cat + dash indoors) can give you that escape from an unwanted fight. Stealth + track humanoids is great for when you just don't want to be seen.

That said, I don't think a druid is for the impatient. A lot of battles are a matter of outlasting the opponent (be it PvP or not). We just don't have the damage output typically. But we have big heals, and a big damage sink in bear form (heard stories of 10000+ armour; only managed about 7000 myself). While there is the disadvantage of having to shift forms for different abilities; overall the class is quite powerful once you figure out the best form for each situation, and when to shift/shift back.

You'll end up being called for as healer a lot later in game. I resisted the full restoration build for a while (being balanced between restoration and feral), but around the time the guild started doing Uldaman/Maraudon, I really needed the points in Subtlety and Nature's swiftness. I still miss feline swiftness ... may respec one of these days for the PvP utility, but innervate has come in handy too many times as well. Being one of the few healers in the guild (Canadian guild, and we're full of hunters ... go figure) has meant that I'm called upon all the time, but as a few others have worked their way up, I've had the chance to play with the other forms more (always keep a separate set or two of feral gear around).

Have been primary healer in 5-man groups through BRD, Scholomance, both sides of Stratholme (despite being called upon constantly to 10-man raid the places for loot). Also have had the chance to tank in BRD and Scarlet side Stratholme when I've had the good fortune of having 2 healers who are able to come along that day. Priests have do have the advantage of being able to shield someone in an emergency, but we can get the job done as well, but it is a bit trickier (NS once every 3 mins... use it wisely!). Sneaking around the Lyceum in BRD with a rogue to snag the torch, duo the elemental guard, and light the braziers is particulary fun when you don't have aoe damage to quickly take out the mobs before they respawn (though I guess it got a lot easier with the 1.3 patch; my memories are back when the place was harder). Admittedly, you could solo the elemental guard yourself, but it'll take you about 2 minutes to defeat it, and the torch only lasts 5 minutes after you loot it...

I've had the privilege of running with a pretty good group, which always keeps things fun.

The druid's skillset allows you to solo elites/bosses that others wouldn't be able to. Princess Theradras could once be kited with DoT's prior to 1.3; now that she has a knockdown and is smarter, that won't be possible anymore, but I do plan to go back there once I've acquired better armour and +sta gear. First tried to take her down solo when I was about L54 or so. Volchan in Burning Steppes can be easily root/starfired to death. Incendius in BRD; haven't had luck with Ambassador Flamelash, but will give it another go when I have more fire resistance. Mother Smolderweb in LBRS (got my Wildheart boots solo; though expecting her to be buffed in some patch one of these days to prevent that). Hearthsinger in Stratholme for my Songbird Blouse and Piccolo of the Flaming Fire.

PvP ... most 1v1's I come out of alive if nobody else comes to help. The thing is a lot of the time you hardly ever get even 1v1's, and with the slow killing speed of the druid, often times the battle won't be over before someone else comes to help (from either side). Group PvP ... heal your members, stop the people who are trying to flee (root, feral charge, hibernate druids in forms/shaman ghost wolves).

So thus comes the dilemma ... if I were to start another character after playing and loving the versatility of the druid (basically my only character so far; L14 mage in open beta doesn't count), would I ever be satisfied with anything else?

[playingtokrush]

So thus comes the dilemma ... if I were to start another character after playing and loving the versatility of the druid (basically my only character so far; L14 mage in open beta doesn't count), would I ever be satisfied with anything else?
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Maybe a shaman. They're a delightfully enjoyable and effective hybrid class.

[Watto44]

Maybe a shaman.  They're a delightfully enjoyable and effective hybrid class.
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Too true. I have a late-mid-level druid and a fairly high level shammy, and I've got to say that I enjoy both. It's a funny thing though. Even though druids are, IMO, better at tanking, better healers, and better at soloing elites, I enjoy the fluidity of my shammy more than the fractured playstyle of the druid. There's something about having to shift between forms that really bugs me sometimes, and makes me feel like I'm playing three mini-characters rather than one full one.

All in all though, I love my druid. Too many fond memories. (And some not so fond ones, like being accused of healing the Princess in Maraudon by a personallity challenged warrior......gods that my my blood boil for about two days. :angry: )

[nobbie]

Too true. I have a late-mid-level druid and a fairly high level shammy, and I've got to say that I enjoy both.  It's a funny thing though.  Even though druids are, IMO, better at tanking, better healers, and better at soloing elites, I enjoy the fluidity of my shammy more than the fractured playstyle of the druid.  There's something about having to shift between forms that really bugs me sometimes, and makes me feel like I'm playing three mini-characters rather than one full one.

Interesting summary, because the Brady Games WOW Guide comes to exactly the same conclusion. Quote from the introduction of the Shaman guide section on page 147:

... Shaman are able to fill many roles and may seem similar to Druids at first; yet, the differences between these classes grow with each level as the Druid becomes better able to focus on any single role at a time and the Shaman becomes more of a blend. ...

[Watto44]

Sorry to jijack the thread a bit, but are the written guides much use? I've been sticking to the online one's, but I wouldn't mind having something WoW related to read in the mornings.

[nobbie]

Sorry to jijack the thread a bit, but are the written guides much use? I've been sticking to the online one's, but I wouldn't mind having something WoW related to read in the mornings.
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I can confirm that the Brady Games WOW Guide (with the size of a warehouse catalogue) is the best game guide I have ever hold in my hands so far, and that the information and tips in it are well organized and actually useful. The game tables, skill info etc. are, of course, partly outdated because they're are based on the U.S. Open Beta (when the guide was printed), but if you buy the guide, you'll get a link to the Brady Games website where you can regularly download updated guide sections as PDF files for free. There's also a kind of "special edition" of the guide which gets you even more exclusive info from the Brady Games website.

[playingtokrush]

The game tables, skill info etc. are, of course, partly outdated because they're are based on the U.S. Open Beta (when the guide was printed)

I think it must've been finalized even before then. The paladin skills section, for example, is rife with incorrect information based on the old pre-seal/blessing-change paladin. But I remember the big paladin change had hit before Open Beta.

[nobbie]

I think it must've been finalized even before then.  The paladin skills section, for example, is rife with incorrect information based on the old pre-seal/blessing-change paladin.  But I remember the big paladin change had hit before Open Beta.
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Yes, but the Paladin is the only class with quite outdated info in the guide, I think. What makes the guide so valuable is that it organizes the mass of WOW information in an easily understandable fashion, incl. tables of the countless items, recipes, NPC's etc. Also nice are the "First 10 Level" guides with all quests in the starting area for all classes and the playing tips for later levels. Instance walkthrough guides are (still) missing, though.

[playingtokrush]

Yes, but the Paladin is the only class with quite outdated info in the guide, I think. What makes the guide so valuable is that it organizes the mass of WOW information in an easily understandable fashion, incl. tables of the countless items, recipes, NPC's etc. Also nice are the "First 10 Level" guides with all quests in the starting area for all classes and the playing tips for later levels. Instance walkthrough guides are (still) missing, though.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the guide on the whole is bad. On the contrary, I must say it's one of the most useful guides I've ever seen for an online game. I'm just saying I think that the guide is from pre-Open-Beta.

I haven't seen any of those downloadable PDF updates, so I'm curious how useful those are.

[nobbie]

I haven't seen any of those downloadable PDF updates, so I'm curious how useful those are.
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--> http://www.bradygames.com/promotions/world...craft/guide.asp

[playingtokrush]

--> http://www.bradygames.com/promotions/world...craft/guide.asp
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I didn't buy the guide, so I don't have an account.

[nobbie]

The PDF updates so far update the outdated table data (class abilities, talents and quests).

[russ]

The PDF updates so far update the outdated table data (class abilities, talents and quests).
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Not really worth it, since you can find quests, class abilities, and talents on sites such as thottbot or alla, and the very limited commentary in the guide doesn't seem particularly helpful or insightful. A lot of it isn't even accurate. You can, however, create an account without having bought the original book.

"druids who like cat form should get agility and more agility" <- someone shoot this writer.

[LochnarITB]

This seemed like a good place for posting my request (drops graphic and runs before getting torn up by the cat form build maulers).



Your comments on this build greatly appreciated. :unsure: