Vigor vs Peparation

[ima_nerd]

Ok. My build is (currently) planned out to be 31/2/18. Basically all that is "crucial" to the build is the 30/2/18. I'm pretty much a stunlock build. I like solo pvp/ganking and do this:
CS+SS+Gouge+SS+KS+SS+SS+Gouge+CB+Evis
It generally kills them. Now that you know my build and playing style, answer me this. I essentially have 1 extra point in my build. I can either go Vigor or Ghostly Strike. Vigor would be nice, I mean, 10 extra energy. But, it's basically just -10 energy on opener. Ghostly Strike would also be nice; 15% dodge as well as a combo point, but my build centers around the target being stunned. What to do? Thanks in advance.

Edit: No idea why I put Vigor vs Peparation (misspelled at that). Should read "Vigor vs Ghostly Strike" :)

[Quark]

I essentially have 1 extra point in my build. I can either go Vigor or Ghostly Strike. Vigor would be nice, I mean, 10 extra energy. But, it's basically just -10 energy on opener.

The problem with Vigor is that, unless it's a long fight, I think it will only help you if something goes wrong. When a skill misses and takes less energy, then the 10 you start with might be able to get you over that bump. So that means all your preceeding skills are hitting 2 seconds earlier.

If nothing misses, it takes a long fight to get to the point where 10 energy will help you not wait for the 2 second tick. Because of this, for right now I am planning not to go Vigor, even though I am getting 5 Seal Fate. However, if I end up getting the rogue set that adds +10 to energy, then I would definately get vigor. In that case, it's a full 2 second tick saved, as most of the skills I use cost either 40 or 60 energy. It's the 3rd or 4th skill I use (depending) where I'm waiting for energy. 10 energy won't help that, but 20 will.

[ima_nerd]

Hmm, good point. I forgot about that set (forget what it's called). I've heard that it's not so great though except for the chestpiece and the helm. Anywho. Currently I use Gouge to recover lost energy as well as gain a combo point. I can then SS once more and immedietley KS. Ghostly strike will most likely be my choice for it's PvE uses and against mail wearers. There's currently a 2-3 second gap after my first KS that the target isn't stunned. May come in handy there. Against cloth I don't have to KS, I jump right to CB Evis. Thanks for the input.

[Concillian]

That set is okay, and it takes 5 pieces to get +10 energy.

The biggest problem is they are all epic pieces requiring level 60, which means about the only place you'll be able to get them is raid bosses like in the Onixian instance and Molten Core.

I really can't foresee too many people except serious raid guilds playing that kind of content enough to piece together 5 pieces of that set worth wearing. Assuming Onyxia drops a set piece every time (she dropped a piece of the epic Priest set for the US group that defeated her) you'd have to kill her like 40 times before you had decent chances at collecting 5 items from any one given set. And you'd have to be the only rogue winning the rolls out of the 40 killing her.

I think it's safe to say taking that particular set into account on a build is wishful thinking at best.

[ima_nerd]

That kind of stuff doesn't drop in BRS? I thought it was the big drop zone and that's why eveyone is farming it in preparation for Battlegrounds. Well, if only she drops it then I defintley won't go vigor.

[Malakar]

Against cloth I don't have to KS, I jump right to CB Evis.
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Against a good mage that's built for PvP versus rogues, you'd better use KS before CS wears off.

A mage built for PvP against rogues is going to have tons of stamina gear to survive the initial stun. They're also going to have Presence of Mind so they can instant cast polymorph as soon as stun wears off for a split second. So you're gonna want to maximize your stun length in the very beginning.

After you're polymorphed, the fight gets tricky. Most likely he's going to lead off with a fireball so you can't vanish, then a cone of cold or frost bolt to slow you down and stay away. You're only option then is to use Sprint, but you'll still be running at only 60-75% speed. It does help with delaying their fireball though, so you might get a window of opportunity to vanish, maybe.

[ima_nerd]

Cloth my level may have +stam gear but that's not gonna stop a 700 dmg evis (after armor reduction). Between poisons and SS damage, they're at half health by the time I get 5 cps. If a is mage really thinking, he'll blink out of CS, as mages can blink out of stuns (WTF?!). Pretty messed up, but I'm about 90% sure it's true. My only hope is to surprise them so much they don't think fast enough. Or just catch 'em when they have no mana :) Mind numbing Poison helps a lot too.

[Malakar]

If a is mage really thinking, he'll blink out of CS, as mages can blink out of stuns (WTF?!).
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Mages can't blink out of stun. What you're seeing is them blinking immediately after stun wears off.

Cloth my level may have +stam gear but that's not gonna stop a 700 dmg evis (after armor reduction). Between poisons and SS damage, they're at half health by the time I get 5 cps.

Can you get 5 cp's and pull off a CB Evis before the initial 4 second stun wears off, though? Hmm, perhaps if you use a Thistle Tea...

My only hope is to surprise them so much they don't think fast enough.

This is one of the main things that used to get me killed by rogues. That and lack of experience, assuming they didn't pull something lame like ambushing me while I'm low health from mobs.

Or just catch 'em when they have no mana :)

That's obviously to your advantage, but if they're an arcane mage, health is more of your concern cause they can use Evocation to recover ~2/3 of their mana (10 min cooldown) while you're poly'd.

This ambushing in bad situations is what pissed me off about rogues, and inspired me to build my character to kill them. If someone does it to me, they'd better make sure they kill me, cause if they don't I'm going to pot, kill them, and camp their corpse for an hour.

Mind numbing Poison helps a lot too.

I have a question about this skill, since nobody ever seems to use it on me. What does it do to instant casts?

[Treesh]

Mages can't blink out of stun. What you're seeing is them blinking immediately after stun wears off.
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Are you sure about that? I've seen quite a few mages say otherwise, but my mage isn't high enough for me to see for myself.

[Malakar]

I could've sworn I tested this out a long time ago and it didn't work, but I just tried it again and it does. :o Was this an unintended change that happened in the patch where they fixed blink to break root like it was supposed to, or am I trippin?

[playingtokrush]

I could've sworn I tested this out a long time ago and it didn't work, but I just tried it again and it does. :o Was this an unintended change that happened in the patch where they fixed blink to break root like it was supposed to, or am I trippin?

I get inconsistent results when trying to Blink while stunned. Sometimes I'll blink, sometimes I'll get "Can't do that while stunned," and I swear I've moved forward the 20 yards while remaining stunned before.

Oh, and mind numbing poison has no effect on instant cast spells, other than a talented instant Arcane Explosion (which then has about a half second cast time).

[Malakar]

Interesting.

[Boutros]

Blink is supposed to break all roots and stuns, but I've been told that it's bugged so that the only stuns it breaks are the warrior stuns and some of the rogue stuns. Combined with it's 15 second cooldown it's one of the most overpowered skills in the game in PvP.

[Malakar]

After reading your post I just took a look at the tooltip, which reads "Also frees the caster from stuns and bonds"... I don't remember it ever saying anything about stuns before. Was this changed in the patch, or do I have a bad memory?

Anyway I took the oppotunity to do some testing with a rogue friend.

Blink broke stun every single time, out of ~20 tests. It did not however allow me to cast blink while I was under gouge, while stunned or not.

Also found out another interesting tidbit. If a rogue Cheapshots you while you're eating/drinking, you cannot blink because it keeps you sitting down while you're stunned.

[Treesh]

Blink broke stun every single time, out of ~20 tests. It did not however allow me to cast blink while I was under gouge, while stunned or not.

Also found out another interesting tidbit. If a rogue Cheapshots you while you're eating/drinking, you cannot blink because it keeps you sitting down while you're stunned.
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Thanks for checking that. And I think the reason why it didn't allow it for gouge was because gouge is actually a disorientation rather than an actual stun? Can you blink from a sap? A sap is just a disorientation too rather than a stun like cheap shot or kidney shot.

[Malakar]

Thanks for checking that.  And I think the reason why it didn't allow it for gouge was because gouge is actually a disorientation rather than an actual stun?  Can you blink from a sap?  A sap is just a disorientation too rather than a stun like cheap shot or kidney shot.
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Hmm. I didn't make a conscious effort to check for differences between sap/gouge, though I know I was sapped a few times and I think I tried to blink unsuccessfully, but I'm not really sure.

I would assume that they work the same though, for the reason you stated. I would guess the balance reasoning is that if you get knocked out of the "stun" by being hit, then blink is not supposed to work.


Edit: Oh and by the way, the failure message you get when gouged is "You cannot do that while stunned", and for when you're sitting down and stunned, it's "You need to be standing to do that".

[Concillian]

That kind of stuff doesn't drop in BRS? I thought it was the big drop zone and that's why eveyone is farming it in preparation for Battlegrounds. Well, if only she drops it then I defintley won't go vigor.
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That kind of stuff drops from raid level content, not BRS unless you're really lucky (even then I don't know if it does)

Now that people have hit up Molten Core quite a bit, it's clear that the bosses in there drop the same kind of stuff, and they are more farmable than Onyxia (since onyxia is one boss and after that it gets locked for 5 days, but MC has several mini-bosses. As such you can "farm" more items from MC than Onyxia.)

These epic items are starting to show up more in thottbot now that MC is being raided more regularly.

Blues are primarily what drop in BRS. Some bosses drop epics (Rend, for example) but they are very rare, with a <3% drop rate. The raid level bosses seem to drop 2-4 purples every time from the info I've seen. (no personal experience with that kind of stuff, of course but if you watch the conquest videos, several show the drops)

As an aside they have posted that raid loot will be improved shortly:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...p=1#post1340627

[ima_nerd]

Can you get 5 cp's and pull off a CB Evis before the initial 4 second stun wears off, though? Hmm, perhaps if you use a Thistle Tea...

or Gouge...CS+SS+Gouge+SS+CB+Evis That leaves 'em unstunned for about 1 sec and that is while waiting for the 35 energy for Evis; I have 25 energy as that's where I sometimes KS. 25 energy = Kick if necessary. If they instacast poly, dommage. Priests I don't mess around with Evis, that's a straight KS, obviously.

pull something lame like ambushing me while I'm low health

Lame? Explain. Enemy = enemy to me provided they're similar level (no more than 2-3 below me; ganking levels considerably lower is lame :P)

That kind of stuff drops from raid level content

Now, that is lame. I've seen a video where the guy had the full set...he must have a lot of time on his hands.

I'm going to pot, kill them, and camp their corpse for an hour.

Wow. That's lamer then ganking in my opinion. Each to his own.

Blinking out of stun seems...strange. My definition of stunned is...stunned, can't do anything etc. Sap, Gouge, and Blind are all disoriented (i'm only 90% about Blind, I very rarely use it)

[Boutros]

Now, that is lame. I've seen a video where the guy had the full set...he must have a lot of time on his hands.
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You may have seen someone in a full set of Shadowcraft, but that doesn't give +10 to energy as a partial completion bonus. The increase in max energy is from the nightslayer set, and I'm fairly confident that nobody has more than one or two pieces of that set since it drops off of Molten Core monsters and Onyxia.

[Malakar]

If they instacast poly, dommage.
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What do you mean by "dommage"?

Lame? Explain. Enemy = enemy to me provided they're similar level (no more than 2-3 below me; ganking levels considerably lower is lame :P)

How is it any different? Attacking someone with low health/mana gives you just the same advantage as being significantly higher level. They basically have no chance to kill you regardless of your skill unless you suck.

Wow. That's lamer then ganking in my opinion.

And that's precisely the point. I exagerated a bit in what I'll do that in response to; typically they have to really piss me off, usually repeated incidents of lame stuff. But the point remains, when people do lame stuff to me, I'll do whatever I can to do worse to them. Otherwise I try to be cool with horde, despite my friends devoloping factionist hate towards their entire group, I try to focus on individuals.